Cheat Engine Forum Index Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Best Packer to use on my game client?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General Gamehacking
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
protectiongame
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 0

Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:46 am    Post subject: Best Packer to use on my game client? Reply with quote

Hi,

I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Best Packer to use on my game client? Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Hi,

I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!


Every packer can be unpacked. But there are some protectors that are HARD to unpack, like Themida (with SDK integration), VMprotect, etc...

I recommend you VMProtect, it's one of the most pain-in-the-ass to be reversed and cracked.

_________________
Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
protectiongame
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 0

Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Best Packer to use on my game client? Reply with quote

AikonCWD wrote:
protectiongame wrote:
Hi,

I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!


Every packer can be unpacked. But there are some protectors that are HARD to unpack, like Themida (with SDK integration), VMprotect, etc...

I recommend you VMProtect, it's one of the most pain-in-the-ass to be reversed and cracked.


VMProtect uses virtualization which gives lots of post positives to virus scanners, a big no no for games Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rydian
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 31

Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 1358

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.

Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.

- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
protectiongame
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 0

Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rydian wrote:
You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.

Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.

- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.


Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SteveAndrew
Master Cheater
Reputation: 30

Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rydian is right! If it's single player, then don't worry about that which you have no control over (other people and what they'll do with bits loaded in to their RAM Wink)

If it is multi-player, well then you don't have much to worry about since you will be controlling all variables that mean anything on your server(s). Just make sure your servers are secure!

So to directly answer your question, the best packer is NONE! Very Happy No packer is the best packer. Packers are lame, they just make your game/application slower to load up with no real benefit.

EDIT: Just saw your post after I was in the middle of typing mine... In that case use a custom encryption perhaps? Encrypt the encryption key with a custom encryption? Then if they find the key it still wont work as they'll need to go a step further. In any case anything you do really would just be to slow a person down, or prevent a beginner from being able to pull it off. The advanced will be able to regardless of anything you might do. I don't think anyone will really want your models anyway, ask yourself what could they do with them? Make a mod or something? Well in that case they'll probably instead replace your models with their own.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dark Byte
Site Admin
Reputation: 471

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 25831
Location: The netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so the packing is not because of security but because you're afraid that people steal your 3d models? (assuming it's 3d, it'd be ridiculous if it was a 2d game)

If so, it's wasted money

direct3d hooks that work at runtime (or a modified d3d dll) can obtain all the data about the 3d models they need to reconstruct it. or hook the place where they get loaded in memory and then backtrack to the source of the model present in memory, perhaps even with the original file format making things even easier)

I recommend you edit the models and place a giant "This model belongs to <your companyname>" on every characters forehead. That way you can see when someone steals them and use it for themself

_________________
Do not ask me about online cheats. I don't know any and wont help finding them.

Like my help? Join me on Patreon so i can keep helping
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I recommend you edit the models and place a giant "This model belongs to <your companyname>" on every characters forehead. That way you can see when someone steals them and use it for themself


For the love of god, hahahaha Very Happy

_________________
Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rydian
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 31

Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 1358

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Rydian wrote:
You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.

Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.

- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.


Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption.
http://gamebanana.com/tools/5638

If you put it on the computers of your customers, they have access to it.

But if somebody uses the models for themselves in their own product, that's grounds for a lawsuit.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atom0s
Moderator
Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8587
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Rydian wrote:
You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.

Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.

- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.


Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption.


Sounds like you have your priorities in the wrong place for wanting to make an MMORPG... You don't care about people cheating? Obviously your game is not going to do well then.

As for your .res files, they are going to get cracked. Don't think otherwise.
It is going to happen.

And as DB said, even if the .res files themselves don't get cracked, anyone can easily create a rendering hook for Direct3D, OpenGL, SDL, etc. to dump the texture memory before it is rendered getting the texture and model information anyway. No matter what you do you will not win the battle against hackers and cheaters.

_________________
- Retired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chris12
Expert Cheater
Reputation: 1

Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atom0s wrote:
protectiongame wrote:
Rydian wrote:
You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.

Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.

- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.


Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption.


Sounds like you have your priorities in the wrong place for wanting to make an MMORPG... You don't care about people cheating? Obviously your game is not going to do well then.

As for your .res files, they are going to get cracked. Don't think otherwise.
It is going to happen.

And as DB said, even if the .res files themselves don't get cracked, anyone can easily create a rendering hook for Direct3D, OpenGL, SDL, etc. to dump the texture memory before it is rendered getting the texture and model information anyway. No matter what you do you will not win the battle against hackers and cheaters.


True, I dumped models and textures just for fun from some games.
Its too easy to do this, you can't prevent it.
Think about wow,lol,hots, ... they don't worry about models being ripped, so why should you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
protectiongame
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 0

Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good


is good, but not infalible/uncrackeable. Any packer is full-secure.

_________________
Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justa_dude
Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 23

Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 893

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good


Beware that almost anything better than simple obfuscation is going to require elevated permissions from the user. I don't allow games to run as admin, install services, open other processes, etc., and I'm not alone.

Your smartest move, watermarking your assets, also happens to be the most convenient for users. There are IP-oriented legal firms out there willing to scour the Internet looking for infringement on your behalf without retainer - they'll even go after torrenters and send you checks. Putting invasive kernel-level DRM into your game - DRM that will in-turn require you to have a ridiculous EULA - is the least effective option and therefore just another slap in the face of potential customers.

_________________
A nagy kapu mellett, mindig van egy kis kapu.
----------------------
Come on...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atom0s
Moderator
Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8587
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

protectiongame wrote:
Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good


You heard wrong then cause it is not lol.. All it does is bloat your software with a shitty VM and some basic anti-debug and anti-dump protections. All of which are horribly implemented and easily undone. There are single click unpackers and scripts to completely remove Themedia / WinLicense from files.

Along with that, it has horrible speed issues on larger files or files that are CPU intensive (such as a game etc). As well as major issues with Windows 8 compatibility on various machine setups.

I speak from experience with it as a friend of mine gave me his valid license and copy of Themedia. After about a month of trying all kinds of configuration setups, I removed it and went with other options because of all the problems and horrible protection it offers.

If you want your game protected, protect it at the network layer, not the client itself.

_________________
- Retired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General Gamehacking All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

CE Wiki   IRC (#CEF)   Twitter
Third party websites