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protectiongame How do I cheat?
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: Best Packer to use on my game client? |
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Hi,
I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.
Can anyone help?
Thanks!
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aikoncwd Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 23
Joined: 21 Dec 2012 Posts: 591 Location: Spain (Barcelona)
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Best Packer to use on my game client? |
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| protectiongame wrote: | Hi,
I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.
Can anyone help?
Thanks! |
Every packer can be unpacked. But there are some protectors that are HARD to unpack, like Themida (with SDK integration), VMprotect, etc...
I recommend you VMProtect, it's one of the most pain-in-the-ass to be reversed and cracked.
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protectiongame How do I cheat?
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Best Packer to use on my game client? |
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| AikonCWD wrote: | | protectiongame wrote: | Hi,
I am looking for a good packer that will protect my .exe from unpacking. I am talking with asprotect about this product asprotect64bit and they say it will protect against unpacking most definitely, is this true? I don't want to spend $200 or so on it to find out people can still unpack my client .exe.
Can anyone help?
Thanks! |
Every packer can be unpacked. But there are some protectors that are HARD to unpack, like Themida (with SDK integration), VMprotect, etc...
I recommend you VMProtect, it's one of the most pain-in-the-ass to be reversed and cracked. |
VMProtect uses virtualization which gives lots of post positives to virus scanners, a big no no for games
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Rydian Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 1358
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.
Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.
- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design.
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protectiongame How do I cheat?
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rydian wrote: | You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.
Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.
- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design. |
Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption.
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SteveAndrew Master Cheater
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012 Posts: 323
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Rydian is right! If it's single player, then don't worry about that which you have no control over (other people and what they'll do with bits loaded in to their RAM )
If it is multi-player, well then you don't have much to worry about since you will be controlling all variables that mean anything on your server(s). Just make sure your servers are secure!
So to directly answer your question, the best packer is NONE! No packer is the best packer. Packers are lame, they just make your game/application slower to load up with no real benefit.
EDIT: Just saw your post after I was in the middle of typing mine... In that case use a custom encryption perhaps? Encrypt the encryption key with a custom encryption? Then if they find the key it still wont work as they'll need to go a step further. In any case anything you do really would just be to slow a person down, or prevent a beginner from being able to pull it off. The advanced will be able to regardless of anything you might do. I don't think anyone will really want your models anyway, ask yourself what could they do with them? Make a mod or something? Well in that case they'll probably instead replace your models with their own.
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Dark Byte Site Admin
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Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 25832 Location: The netherlands
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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ok, so the packing is not because of security but because you're afraid that people steal your 3d models? (assuming it's 3d, it'd be ridiculous if it was a 2d game)
If so, it's wasted money
direct3d hooks that work at runtime (or a modified d3d dll) can obtain all the data about the 3d models they need to reconstruct it. or hook the place where they get loaded in memory and then backtrack to the source of the model present in memory, perhaps even with the original file format making things even easier)
I recommend you edit the models and place a giant "This model belongs to <your companyname>" on every characters forehead. That way you can see when someone steals them and use it for themself
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aikoncwd Grandmaster Cheater
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Joined: 21 Dec 2012 Posts: 591 Location: Spain (Barcelona)
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I recommend you edit the models and place a giant "This model belongs to <your companyname>" on every characters forehead. That way you can see when someone steals them and use it for themself
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For the love of god, hahahaha
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Rydian Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 1358
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| protectiongame wrote: | | Rydian wrote: | You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.
Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.
- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design. |
Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption. | http://gamebanana.com/tools/5638
If you put it on the computers of your customers, they have access to it.
But if somebody uses the models for themselves in their own product, that's grounds for a lawsuit.
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atom0s Moderator
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 8587 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| protectiongame wrote: | | Rydian wrote: | You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.
Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.
- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design. |
Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption. |
Sounds like you have your priorities in the wrong place for wanting to make an MMORPG... You don't care about people cheating? Obviously your game is not going to do well then.
As for your .res files, they are going to get cracked. Don't think otherwise.
It is going to happen.
And as DB said, even if the .res files themselves don't get cracked, anyone can easily create a rendering hook for Direct3D, OpenGL, SDL, etc. to dump the texture memory before it is rendered getting the texture and model information anyway. No matter what you do you will not win the battle against hackers and cheaters.
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Chris12 Expert Cheater
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Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 103
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | protectiongame wrote: | | Rydian wrote: | You do know that the executable will be unpacked in RAM when it runs, right? Cant run encrypted data, only code.
Virtualization to actually add another layer of annoyance (something "between" userland tools and the target) will definitely stop the most people... but it only takes one person to distribute the right stuff.
- If you're making a single-player game, players are going to hack it.
- If you're making a multiplayer game and hacking the client allows cheats that affect other players, then the game is insecure in design. |
Its a mmorpg, I don't care if people can do cheats modifying the .exe but I just don't want them to be able to crack the encrytion I have in my .res files that holds most of the clients model files. I spent lots of money on the models and don't want someone cracking into the .res file and obtaining them and the .exe client holds the key to the encryption. |
Sounds like you have your priorities in the wrong place for wanting to make an MMORPG... You don't care about people cheating? Obviously your game is not going to do well then.
As for your .res files, they are going to get cracked. Don't think otherwise.
It is going to happen.
And as DB said, even if the .res files themselves don't get cracked, anyone can easily create a rendering hook for Direct3D, OpenGL, SDL, etc. to dump the texture memory before it is rendered getting the texture and model information anyway. No matter what you do you will not win the battle against hackers and cheaters. |
True, I dumped models and textures just for fun from some games.
Its too easy to do this, you can't prevent it.
Think about wow,lol,hots, ... they don't worry about models being ripped, so why should you?
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protectiongame How do I cheat?
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Joined: 25 Feb 2015 Posts: 5
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good
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aikoncwd Grandmaster Cheater
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Joined: 21 Dec 2012 Posts: 591 Location: Spain (Barcelona)
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| protectiongame wrote: | | Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good |
is good, but not infalible/uncrackeable. Any packer is full-secure.
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justa_dude Grandmaster Cheater
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 893
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| protectiongame wrote: | | Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good |
Beware that almost anything better than simple obfuscation is going to require elevated permissions from the user. I don't allow games to run as admin, install services, open other processes, etc., and I'm not alone.
Your smartest move, watermarking your assets, also happens to be the most convenient for users. There are IP-oriented legal firms out there willing to scour the Internet looking for infringement on your behalf without retainer - they'll even go after torrenters and send you checks. Putting invasive kernel-level DRM into your game - DRM that will in-turn require you to have a ridiculous EULA - is the least effective option and therefore just another slap in the face of potential customers.
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atom0s Moderator
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 8587 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| protectiongame wrote: | | Any good packers that will prevent my client being cracked by beginners? I read that secureengine by Themidais good |
You heard wrong then cause it is not lol.. All it does is bloat your software with a shitty VM and some basic anti-debug and anti-dump protections. All of which are horribly implemented and easily undone. There are single click unpackers and scripts to completely remove Themedia / WinLicense from files.
Along with that, it has horrible speed issues on larger files or files that are CPU intensive (such as a game etc). As well as major issues with Windows 8 compatibility on various machine setups.
I speak from experience with it as a friend of mine gave me his valid license and copy of Themedia. After about a month of trying all kinds of configuration setups, I removed it and went with other options because of all the problems and horrible protection it offers.
If you want your game protected, protect it at the network layer, not the client itself.
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