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Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine
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Uzeil
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 2411
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say I'd make it fuck up for you. Currently, the 2.2 source -> 3.0 source. Therefore, I would have to unmodify it, which means unfixing bugs, and getting rid of whole new forms as well as restoring the old coding that was in 2.2. I wouldn't give anything less nooby out than what I've given you.
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TheSorc3r3r
I post too much
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Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2404
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: |
(b) The Executable Distribution must be accompanied with a
written offer, valid for at least thirty six (36) months, to
give any third party under the terms of this License, for a
charge no more than the cost of physically performing source
distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the Source
Code for the Licensed Work making up the Executable
Distribution, to be available and distributed using an
Electronic Distribution Mechanism, and such Executable
Distribution must remain available in Source Code form to any
third party via the Electronic Distribution Mechanism (or any
replacement Electronic Distribution Mechanism the particular
Distributor may reasonably need to turn to as a substitute) for
said at least thirty six (36) months. |
is also an option for a distributor.
Unless I'm mistaken, that would force any third party wanting the source code (appalsap) to pay the distributor (Uzeil). Would you really pay for the source?
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nox
Expert Cheater
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 227
Location: brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| "for a charge no more than the cost of physically performing source distribution"
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xlnfinityZero
Grandmaster Cheater
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 537
Location: my fluffy room
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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The "Law"? Don't make me laugh, by even using the information provided in this site we're breaking a few rules.
The only way to make that enforced is for the Mods to aggressively delete every UCE thread that doesn't provide a source code. Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't.
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Uzeil
Moderator
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Sorc. As DB was saying, I can distibute it in a way that would cost money, which would force her to pay. And if time is money she'll owe me extra. Obviously she just got something against me within the last few hours because we've talked about this more than once before, and she hasn't done anything like this.
I think she's doing it in reaction to my reaction to this thread, which was the idea of not giving 3.0 to anyone that would ask for the source code, and she knows that after seeing this post that she is officially on my list of people not to hand 3.0 to (the list that I just created).
I'm not certain of her then adding something small / fixing something small and re-releasing, but I have a feeling she'll do that either to spite me or to repeat previous behavior of posting things against the creator's consent. Either way, this simply can't be good, and will be all the more aggrivating because I will know that no matter how many times I can write things in the engine, they will just be copied and 'made better', with credits acclaimed to this next modifier, and mine will then be worthless.
If no matter how much you did to make something stand out above the others would always be able to be topped within a 1 day period, how motivated would you be to work on it?
I very much have liked this being a public engine, which required people to learn, and then gave enhancements for reading code and even learning more while you use the engine. Imagine my surprise when I find that the public I feed it to just wants more.
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Dark Byte
Site Admin
 Reputation: 475
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 25976
Location: The netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If no matter how much you did to make something stand out above the others would always be able to be topped within a 1 day period,
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And you call that a bad thing?
Thats the main puprose of opensource projects, other people can add to the project making the whole project a better thing
Don't think about personal reputation, about how much people like you, think about the project. You can always get some pride by knowing you added feature x and feature y, which that other guy improved on making it really cool
Of course, I'd really like it if it was more organized, like in a main source tree where people can add, and it saddens me that almost noone has shown interest in adding to the main ce project
(This has nothing to do with you personally uzeil, just talking in general)
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Last edited by Dark Byte on Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sportskid300
Grandmaster Cheater
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 944
Location: You Wish.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think, Uzeil, that if you hadn't complained so much in this post, and hadn't posted at all in the thread, you would have seen that appal targeted the people like kaspersky and smartz.
On the other hand, having a very varied source like CE-->mini would make an excellent programming practice/tutorial.
Not saying I'd be able to make the changes, or figure out why the differences make it better (which I cant for either), but just wanted to put my opinion out there.
And, as DB said,
| DarkByte wrote: | | Thats the main puprose of opensource projects, other people can add to the project making the whole project a better thing |
How did you enjoy making your engine public anyway?
100 mlillion leechers, 10-20 thanks.
I never used your engine.
Only downloaded for steps in the tut after 6, for practice.
Thank you for that.
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Corbenix
Expert Cheater
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dark Byte wrote: |
Don't think about personal reputation, about how much people like you, think about the project. You can always get some pride by knowing you added feature x and feature y, which that other guy improved on making it really cool |
The Common Human Ego > Your Idea.
A majority of people want credits, want people to like them, that way they have a method of identifying themselves.
Thats what most human social relations are built upon these days, identification.
Cheers.
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nog_lorp
Grandmaster Cheater
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 743
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MSN wrote: | nog_lorp says:
Hey uzeil
nog_lorp says:
remember 12 months ago when you gave me Mini engine 3.0 AND Mini engine 2.2?
nog_lorp says:
And you gave me that link to the sources?
nog_lorp says:
well I never downloaded it
nog_lorp says:
So I guess now noone else can ever get it
Uzeil says:
guess not |
As per Cheat Engine's license, 3.1(a), Uzeil made his source available online. However, it has been 12 months, and as outlined in the license, he no longer has to make it available online.
You may request the source be delivered to you, via the method that best suits Uzeil (per 3.2(b)). I think he is considering sending it in RAR format using IP over Avian Carrier (RFC 1149) or IP over Sheep (can't find the RFC).
Otherwise, he can always mail it to you - ofcourse he will need your full name and Address, along with credit card information to bill you $5 for shipping and handling.
Oh and one more thing, his PM box is full (and he cannot use other means of communication at this time), so you will have to post that info in this thread.
~nog_lorp
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Last edited by nog_lorp on Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uzeil
Moderator
Reputation: 6
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Dark Byte"] | Quote: | If no matter how much you did to make something stand out above the others would always be able to be topped within a 1 day period,
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And you call that a bad thing?[/qoute]
I personally have taken this whole CE modification thing as like a challenge, or somewhat of a game. Which will explain a few of the next things you'll interperet..
| Quote: | | Thats the main puprose of opensource projects, other people can add to the project making the whole project a better thing |
I used your being open source as a way to learn, which I've done a lot from and I deeply thank you for that.
However, as I mentioned above, I very much have taken it like a challence to out-modify the people around my age group or around the same level of programming experience.
| Quote: | | Don't think about personal reputation, about how much people like you, think about the project. |
Although it's great to have people know what work I've helped create, don't forget that I've very much devoted this modification project to enforce that people learn to get what they want. With this being enforced on me, I have no power to keep people from removing the forced tutorial other than making my own code so unreadable that no one would be able to determine what is going on.
| Quote: | | You can always get some pride by knowing you added feature x and feature y, which that other guy improved on making it really cool |
As I've seen with the other modifiers, people have literally done exactly my ideas, and either done a worse job or an equal job. The only person that has done better as far as not starting out with bugs: I jumped into LogMeIn with them and helped them code much of it and corrected their wrongs. I love the idea of competition, but when someone is just mimic'ing you, that doesn't give any satisfaction.
| Quote: | Of course, I'd really like it if it was more organized, like in a main source tree where people can add, and it saddens me that almost noone has shown interest in adding to the main ce project
(This has nothing to do with you personally uzeil, just talking in general) |
I'd hope this doesn't have anything to do with me because:
1) I've PMd you coding before to fix bugs
2) I've given you many big ideas on IRC that you can impliment and even where you can impliment them/how (not saying that you didn't know, just pointing how much I've done to help add to the main source)
3) Well just look at my site... you'll notice that the structure of subforums is exactly as you were saying.
I was planning to release the 2.2 source fully quite a while back. I set up a forum with sections for people to post coding to add to the main source, I added little sections like default files for people to post for their visual identification files, and their automatic color settings, etc. I basically had exactly what you're talking about in mind.
However, I suddenly decided that it was a bad idea when I realized that malicious people all over the place would have access to the engine and to be able to remove the forced tutorial.
Example: x0r. He was able to crack it until I hardcoded much more ideas that would even keep me from being able to crack my own coding on the assembly level. If he got the Delphi source, the tut would be completely gone.
You know this.
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appalsap
Moderator
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Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 6753
Location: Pakistan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Uzeil wrote: | | think she's doing it in reaction to my reaction to this thread, which was the idea of not giving 3.0 to anyone that would ask for the source code, and she knows that after seeing this post that she is officially on my list of people not to hand 3.0 to (the list that I just created). |
Because the whole world revolves around you, right?
| Uzeil wrote: | | I'm not certain of her then adding something small / fixing something small and re-releasing, but I have a feeling she'll do that either to spite me or to repeat previous behavior of posting things against the creator's consent. Either way, this simply can't be good, and will be all the more aggrivating because I will know that no matter how many times I can write things in the engine, they will just be copied and 'made better', with credits acclaimed to this next modifier, and mine will then be worthless. |
That's a very familiar concept to you isn't it 
| Uzeil wrote: | | I very much have liked this being a public engine, which required people to learn, and then gave enhancements for reading code and even learning more while you use the engine. Imagine my surprise when I find that the public I feed it to just wants more. |
Don't be flattered, there are many ways to get the public to learn. If you make a thread with a tutorial some people will take the challenge and try to beat it. Look at the crackme section! Forcing people who don't want to learn is the problem, because then they'll just find a way to cheat the system (how many people used the windows calculator?) and will forget what theyve learned straight after. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.
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Madman
I post too much
 Reputation: 1
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 3978
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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damn... for just 3 pages, that was a hell-of alot to read. 
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Uzeil
Moderator
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| appalsap wrote: | | Because the whole world revolves around you, right? |
Although that may be a proven theory, it is irrelevant to the fact that you have, more than anyone, asked for the release of 3.0 or the release date at the least. It was an assumption, which I clarified in my post.
| Quote: | | That's a very familiar concept to you isn't it |
Although this may be sarcasm, it's correct. However, they usually don't even add something. They simply take my name out, add theirs in, and call it their own. That has happened both on this forum multiple times and on others before I ever even heard of CEF, MPC, etc.
| Quote: | | Don't be flattered, there are many ways to get the public to learn. |
I don't know what you're basing my flattery on... and I'll explain more here in a moment.
| Quote: | | If you make a thread with a tutorial some people will take the challenge and try to beat it. |
The people that want to learn. The people that are already willing to go out of their way to learn/accomplish something. I wasn't targetting them and you've known that for a long, long time. Why bother bringing in anything irrelevant, or are you trying to convince someone other than me?
| Quote: | | Look at the crackme section! |
People that are already willing to learn / take on a challenge...
| Quote: | | Forcing people who don't want to learn is the problem, because then they'll just find a way to cheat the system (how many people used the windows calculator?) and will forget what theyve learned straight after. |
Exactly, and I've made plenty of people have to learn. Even though some used a calculator or a cheap mapped out guide for hex -> binary by means of memorization, they still wound up having to do the CE tut and learn how to scan and find operation addresses on their own. I also believe you know this, but that one is just an assumption.
| Quote: | | You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. |
I can tell them there are treats in the bottom and give them no option but to drink the water or really use a lot of brainpower to find how to drain the water if they want to get them. And in a cocky note for the treats: If they decide not to find a way to get rid of the water and get the treats, then it's their loss (although this may not be true with Mini considering much of it's functionality is analyzation-based, which only will apply to the people who were already interested or becamse interested after seeing how easy this stuff actually is)
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