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1929394839292057839194958
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme

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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject:

Almighty Allah prefers to show his existence through riddles, fuzzy feelings and patterns in nature but also would like it if everyone converted. Seems a little counterintuitive huh?

zakalla
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:50 pm Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

Probably just going to cite more scripture.

"Your book is a load of shit."

"Yeah, well, my book says otherwise!"

Some people never understand that fictions and wikipedia aren't a reliable source.

finnegan waking up
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

konr wrote:

I don't really have time to argue with you as I know for a fact that you are extremely stuck in your views and will not budge. It's just a waste of time really. You're fully misrepresenting my views and the motives for my views and then trying to back them up with scripture that says that we will not believe the bullshit as if anyone trying to write something as a holy book wouldn't 100% put that in there.

Pointless.

This right here is what pisses me off about the Qu'ran. "There will be people who doubt this, but they are the wrong ones.", and certain firm believers spout out their bullshit to which people say "That's a load of shit", and they go "Aha! The Qu'ran was correct once again!"

Also "The earth and the heavens were united and we tore them apart" being equal to the big bang is a huge fucking stretch, akin to saying that God saying "Let there be light!" means that the bible already knew about the big bang.

The next point "with power and skill we created the firmament" means absolutely shit all in relation to our scientific knowledge of space. It's just the Qu'ran claiming that they created the heavens, and then someone slapped something they thought looked scientific and slapped it on there. This isn't proof of shit.

Edit: Holy damn, after looking at all the stuff on his first post now, I am cringing way too hard to bother with debunking all that. Mountains and tent pegs. are you fucking kidding me? This is why I think Talix is trolling, how can someone be that stupid?

do you really think qur'an was delivered in english?

The mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p. 220)
Allah Almighty said: "Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (The Noble Quran, 78:6-7)"
He the Almighty also said: "And He has set firm mountains in the earth so it would not sway (TAMEED) with you....(The Noble Quran, 16:15)"

do you want to explain how someone uneducated knew this over 1400 years ago... yet modern science got it yesterday?
...and when MODERN SCIENCE USES THE SAME WORD? lmfao

>it's just qur'an claiming that they created the heavens
He*, and it is no claim.

konr wrote:

Almighty Allah prefers to show his existence through riddles, fuzzy feelings and patterns in nature but also would like it if everyone converted. Seems a little counterintuitive huh?

not when you consider that you have the free will to not be muslim.

Al-Qalam

Nun.
You (O Muhammad ) are not, by the Grace of your Lord, a madman.
And verily, for you (O Muhammad ) will be an endless reward.
And verily, you (O Muhammad ) are on an exalted standard of character.
You will see, and they will see,
Which of you is afflicted with madness.
Verily, your Lord knows better, who (among men) has gone astray from His Path, and He knows better those who are guided.
So (O Muhammad ) obey not the deniers [(of Islamic Monotheism those who belie the Verses of Allah), the Oneness of Allah, and the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad ), etc.]
They wish that you should compromise (in religion out of courtesy) with them, so they (too) would compromise with you.
And obey not everyone who swears much, and is considered worthless,
A slanderer, going about with calumnies,
Hinderer of the good, transgressor, sinful,
Cruel, after all that base-born (of illegitimate birth),
(He was so) because he had wealth and children.
When Our Verses (of the Qur'an) are recited to him, he says: "Tales of the men of old!"
We shall brand him over the nose!
Verily, We have tried them as We tried the people of the garden, when they swore to pluck the fruits of the (garden) in the morning,
Without saying: Insha' Allah (If Allah will).
Then there passed by on the (garden) something (fire) from your Lord at night and burnt it while they were asleep.
So the (garden) became black by the morning, like a pitch dark night (in complete ruins).
Then they called out one to another as soon as the morning broke,
Saying: "Go to your tilth in the morning, if you would pluck the fruits."
So they departed, conversing in secret low tones (saying),
No Miskin (poor man) shall enter upon you into it today.
And they went in the morning with strong intention, thinking that they have power (to prevent the poor taking anything of the fruits therefrom).
But when they saw the (garden), they said: "Verily, we have gone astray,"
(Then they said): "Nay! Indeed we are deprived of (the fruits)!"
The best among them said: "Did I not tell you: why do you not say: Insha' Allah (If Allah will)."
They said: "Glory to Our Lord! Verily, we have been Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.)."
Then they turned, one against another, in blaming.
They said: "Woe to us! Verily, we were Taghun (transgressors and disobedient, etc.)
We hope that our Lord will give us in exchange a better (garden) than this. Truly, we turn to our Lord (wishing for good that He may forgive our sins, and reward us in the Hereafter)."
Such is the punishment (in this life), but truly, the punishment of the Hereafter is greater, if they but knew.
Verily, for the Muttaqun (pious and righteous persons - see V.2:2) are Gardens of delight (Paradise) with their Lord.
Shall We then treat the (submitting) Muslims like the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers, etc.)?
What is the matter with you? How judge you?
Or have you a Book through which you learn.
That you shall have all that you choose?
Or you have oaths from Us, reaching to the Day of Resurrection that yours will be what you judge.
Ask them, which of them will stand surety for that!
Or have they "partners"? Then let them bring their "partners" if they are truthful!
(Remember) the Day when the Shin shall be laid bare (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) and they shall be called to prostrate (to Allah), but they (hypocrites) shall not be able to do so,
Their eyes will be cast down, ignominy will cover them; they used to be called to prostrate (offer prayers), while they were healthy and good (in the life of the world, but they did not).
Then leave Me Alone with such as belie this Qur'an. We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not.
And I will grant them a respite. Verily, My Plan is strong.
Or is it that you (O Muhammad ) ask them a wage, so that they are heavily burdened with debt?
Or that the Ghaib (unseen here in this Verse it means Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz) is in their hands, so that they can write it down?
So wait with patience for the Decision of your Lord, and be not like the Companion of the Fish, when he cried out (to Us) while he was in deep sorrow. (See the Qur'an, Verse 21:87).
Had not a Grace from his Lord reached him, he would indeed have been (left in the stomach of the fish, but We forgave him), so he was cast off on the naked shore, while he was to be blamed.
But his Lord chose him and made him of the righteous.
And verily, those who disbelieve would almost make you slip with their eyes through hatredness when they hear the Reminder (the Qur'an), and they say: "Verily, he (Muhammad ) is a madman!"
But it is nothing else than a Reminder to all the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

HackOtaku
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject:

Quote:

: And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit

Qu'ran 21:33

Nice geocentric model of Earth, but that's what you get from books from the 600's.
inb4galaticblackholeadhoc

HitIer
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject:

Antagonist wrote:

This guy is fucking nutts

_________________

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t328163 wrote:

Your username derives from the fact that this site cannot format special characters lol.

t328163 wrote:

lmfao, on reddit i'd get banned

zakalla
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject:

greatsage wrote:

wall of text

Ain't nobody got time for that

finnegan waking up
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:20 am Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

Quote:

: And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit

Qu'ran 21:33

Nice geocentric model of Earth, but that's what you get from books from the 600's.
inb4galaticblackholeadhoc

yes akhi,
[21:33] It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.

the word falak used is the same as for a spinning wheel.

however, nowhere does this state it to be geocentric whatsoever?

[39:5] He created the heavens and the Earth with truth. He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient, each one running for a specified term. Is He not indeed the Almighty, the Endlessly Forgiving?

this goes completely in line with scientific truth, and took about 1000 years for kepler to come along.
we know now today, just as the Qur'an told us over 1400 years ago, that the sun and moon both run their own course. we know the sun is in orbit as is the moon.

HackOtaku
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:41 am Post subject:

He clearly believed that the Sun was in orbit with the Earth as well as the moon, as that's what everyone thought before Copernicus. You honestly expect me to believe he was saying that the moon orbits the earth and that the sun orbits a supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy? Ad hoc hypothesis. Why does he never actually say anything about that black hole. Why does he fail to mention that the Earth orbits the sun? Could it be that he could only go off the current understanding of science at the time, or would you prefer to take it way out of context and pretend he meant something else?

HitIer
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:27 am Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

Why does he never actually say anything about that black hole.

He does

Anal is haram
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t328163 wrote:

Your username derives from the fact that this site cannot format special characters lol.

t328163 wrote:

lmfao, on reddit i'd get banned

finnegan waking up
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

He clearly believed that the Sun was in orbit with the Earth as well as the moon, as that's what everyone thought before Copernicus. You honestly expect me to believe he was saying that the moon orbits the earth and that the sun orbits a supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy? Ad hoc hypothesis. Why does he never actually say anything about that black hole. Why does he fail to mention that the Earth orbits the sun? Could it be that he could only go off the current understanding of science at the time, or would you prefer to take it way out of context and pretend he meant something else?

>He clearly believed that the Sun was in orbit with the Earth as well as the moon
He? who is this?
>Sun was in orbit
agree on you so far. in fact, it states all celestial bodies are in their course. the tense it uses insofar describes inertia as well. why do you think celestial navigational atmospheres are mimicked and simulated with water? the word "swimming" could better mean action without intervention. inertia. stays in motion until an outside force etc.

>as that's what everyone thought before Copernicus
this is blatantly untrue... lol... i'm really just going to leave it there. trust me when i say that is slack for you. i don't want to mull through 7000 years of evidence that predate copernicus.

nowhere does it state that the sun orbits the earth. in fact, "each in its rounded course" means that /each/ has a /different orbit/
if they both orbited the earth it would say something completely different in arabic due to syntax. this is completely fallacious by your straw man fallacy.

there are many more prophecies and truths in the quran. why do you keep bringing up black holes?

[15:19] (So verily, I swear by the stars that are veiled. And by the (sweeping) stars that move swiftly and hide themselves. And by the night as it departs; And by the dawn as it brightens; Verily, this is the Word (this Qur'an brought by) a most honorable messenger [Jibril (Gabriel), from Allah to the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)]

[77:8] When the stars are extinguished

fact: black holes extinguish
fact: black holes are veiled, move quickly (and maybe ftl) and hide themselves (thus black).

in fact you could go so far as to say that gravity also causes night & day, as the power of black holes (and stars, which they are)

but not only does the word "konus" which this word "sweeping" means, better can be described as the derivative for the modern translation for vacuum cleaner. it is sweeping like with a broom, to remove clutter.
that is exactly what black holes do alhamdulillah you are right! yes, He knew of black holes and that the sun has its rounded course around its black hole as does the moon has also its rounded course around the earth as does each and every celestial object have their individual courses, set and rounded. as each includes the earth, it has also its own: it orbits the sun.

[86:2-3] "Can you understand Tarik? It is a star which PIERCES DARK"

[24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

we know fire is not the cause of stars.

[21:104] The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

The current theoretical belief (because it is predicted by the theory of cosmic inflation) is that the universe is flat, with exactly the amount of mass required to stop the expansion (the corresponding average critical density that would just stop the is called the closure density). Recent observations (such as the BOOMERANG and MAXIMA cosmic microwave background radiation results, and various supernova observations) imply that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. If so, this strongly suggests that the universe is geometrically "flat".

Wink

Last edited by finnegan waking up on Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

HackOtaku
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject:

Okay, not everyone, but a very large number of people back in those days. And by he, I mean Muhammad, as iirc that's where the teaching of the quran comes from. A man looks at the sky, sees two large celestial bodies, and makes up an explanation for it. His big thing is trying to make his own religion, because he sees himself as divine. This I attribute to delusions of grandeur, we have our own Muhammad here after all. His explanation is that the sun and the moon are both on their course their course being the trail across the sky. He says they're both in orbit, not because he knows the grand scheme of the universe and that the Sun is orbiting something much larger, but because from the perspective of a man on Earth with his knowledge, it appears like the Sun and the Moon orbit the Earth. Then he follows it up with "Isn't our God swell?" It's more reasonable to assume he meant this than to assume by all your leaps and bounds he meant something more. Why does he never mention that the Earth is rotating and orbiting at the same time? Because he didn't know. This is the man who said you could travel to the edge of the world and watch the sun set in a muddy puddle, after all.

finnegan waking up
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

Okay, not everyone, but a very large number of people back in those days. And by he, I mean Muhammad, as iirc that's where the teaching of the quran comes from. A man looks at the sky, sees two large celestial bodies, and makes up an explanation for it. His big thing is trying to make his own religion, because he sees himself as divine. This I attribute to delusions of grandeur, we have our own Muhammad here after all. His explanation is that the sun and the moon are both on their course their course being the trail across the sky. He says they're both in orbit, not because he knows the grand scheme of the universe and that the Sun is orbiting something much larger, but because from the perspective of a man on Earth with his knowledge, it appears like the Sun and the Moon orbit the Earth. Then he follows it up with "Isn't our God swell?" It's more reasonable to assume he meant this than to assume by all your leaps and bounds he meant something more. Why does he never mention that the Earth is rotating and orbiting at the same time? Because he didn't know. This is the man who said you could travel to the edge of the world and watch the sun set in a muddy puddle, after all.

>Muhammad where iirc the teachings of the Qur'an come from
no, that is where the teachings of the Sunnah come from.

this alone shows how untrue you are. everything you have said thusfar is riddled with holes and requires you putting words in someone else's name.

someone who was beyond you. and never claimed to be divine.

furthermore, you bold and illustrate the word "course", but you neglected to answer the question i asked before

do you really think qur'an was delivered in english?

i already covered this bullshit argument. you have shown you have neglected reason and to listen. the word used is obviously not "course" because it is not an arabic word. the word falak used is the same as for a spinning wheel. which is exactly how as shown.

furthermore, Muhammad never has been attributed with knowing the grand scheme of the universe, you have shown your hand again: you are supremely ignorant.

unfortunately, if you knew at all, you'd go on to read in the qur'an that the sun does indeed go on to orbit something much, much larger
and it is directly, not, the, earth

herpity doopity duh

HackOtaku
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject:

greatsage wrote:

HackOtaku wrote:

If not Muhammad, than whoever it was that said or wrote down what what it says in that part of the qu'ran. A rose by any other name in this case.
Please cite the passage about the Sun going around something larger than itself.

Also, if you want to use the phrase "spinning wheel", imagine the Earth as a flat plane with the sun and moon each on their own "spinning wheel" around this central object.

Also, I know it wasn't written in English, yet you spout off english verses all the time. If the meaning is vastly different, then try and point out the flaws, but "spinning wheel" is not a good enough one. You can't just wave away inaccuracies as mistranslations.

finnegan waking up
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject:

HackOtaku wrote:

greatsage wrote:

HackOtaku wrote:

In a narration, again from Sayyidina Abu Dharr, there appear the additional words to the effect:
“I asked the Prophet about the Statement of Allah: -- ‘And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its destination. That is the designing of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing ' (36.3 Cool

He said, ‘Its course is underneath "Allah's Throne.’" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith 327)

> imagine the Earth as a flat plane with the sun and moon each on their own "spinning wheel" around this central object.
you have literally nothing to tie this imagination to any part of the quran lol, especially not the spinning wheel. try making this argument in arabic and i will respond in arabic because i guarantee, then, you might be arguing against the actual qur'an instead of a straw man; i never used simply the phrase "spinning wheel": it was only you who used just that phrase. i said used falak.
leave it to the hypocrite.

HackOtaku
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:32 pm Post subject:

greatsage wrote:

i never used simply the phrase "spinning wheel": it was only you who used just that phrase. i said used falak.
leave it to the hypocrite.

greatsage wrote:

the word falak used is the same as for a spinning wheel. which is exactly how as shown.

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