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Kurifodo
I post too much
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:04 pm Post subject: Why Trump is right on illegal immigration |
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America spends 12 billion dollars PER YEAR on Mexican border patrol. So how well is the system working? Let's see:
In 20 years, the amount of illegal immigrants in America has been increasing rapidly. In 2010, there were 11.2 MILLION illegal immigrants living in the United States. To put that in perspective, that is about twice the entire population of Indiana. Despite spending BILLIONS every year on border patrol, illegal immigrants are coming in record numbers. For the amount America spends to protect its borders, obviously the current system is very broke.
Trump is the only candidate who talks about immigration logically. Every other candidate knows the system is broken, but they don't talk about it because they fear losing the Hispanic vote in key states like Texas. Texas alone has 38 electoral college votes.
While Trump hasn't laid the whole immigration plan out yet, a few things are clear:
1. There will be a wall to replace the (current) fence
2. A deal will be negotiated with Mexico so they pay for some of the finances of the Wall.
3. All illegals will be deported
4. Illegals who are deported can return to America with no penalty, they just have to enter the legal way like everyone else.
5. Absolutely NO Syrian refugees
Trump's plan is ingenious and will save America TRILLIONS in the long run. Illegal immigrants do NOT pay taxes, do NOT work in educated/skilled professions, and do NOT contribute positively in society. Trump's plan might save America's debt problem for generations to come. Trump is right, there needs to be a massive change in immigration policy, the economics prove it.
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AverageAzn247
Grandmaster Cheater
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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Location: Austin,TX with 72 virgins
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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but i dont want to cut my own grass
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| Waxxup wrote: | What are Night Elves?
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Antagonist
Cheater
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Joined: 24 Nov 2009
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Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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There's probably something you don't understand about Trump's immigration plan that not many people understand either because the reporters that report it are political reporters and people in general aren't business minded.
Trump uses the immigration plan as a negotiation. The opening offer of the plan is an anchor, which is a cognitive bias for which people focus too much on the first idea or in information when making decision. That's how world class negotiators like Trump work. The first offer has no actual purpose other than to start a negotiation where both parties eventually agree. So his plan has 2 ridiculous ideas:
1.) Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country
2.) Deporting 12 illegal immigrants
It's very unlikely to happen and a lot of people think it's ridiculous and they'd be right to think so. For Trump, if he was a goal-thinker he'd most likely fail at achieving these, but that's not how he thinks. He's willing to take less or use misdirection to get what he primarily want - the wall. He knows this because he plays a long game and every move is a negotiation. How do you even convince TWO countries to agree on having a wall? He wants the wall and wants Mexico to pay for it also. That's a big ask. This is a negotiation strategy (I'm in sales, I understand sales/negotiation strategies), but what he's most likely going to do, which he's already laying out the foundation, is start with an opening offer that anchor's peoples mind to the most ridiculous and outrageous part of the plan and simply exchange (which is the negotiation process) parts away until you get what you want: the wall. Congress will feel that the negotiation has happened and that both parties have met in the middle. Except Trump is the one that decide where the middle is. And he's really good at making it ambiguous. Just notice how he doesn't state specific things unless he has to. Notice how he's able to notice people's choice of words and when they have said things that he thinks will hold them back: i.e when he mentions that Bernie Sanders chances against Hillary Clinton is slim because he mentioned the e-mails weren't important in the Democratic debate or when he mentions that Marco Rubio - IF he becomes president, he'd have a lot of trouble with Putin for calling him a gangster, because he just limited himself and have to cover so much grounds to get around that. In the end he's good at gathering information and manipulating information (he knows how much to give and how much to keep) as Mark Twain said - "Gather all your facts, and you can distort them as you please"
So he gets the wall and the next logical step is most likely creating some sort of path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants (assuming he traded this away too for the wall). This will make both sides feel like they won something. Trump wouldn't be able to say though that the illegal immigrants gets a free pass while trying to build the wall. That would trigger a wave of people coming into the country illegally to beat the construction of the wall.
We can also look at the immigration plan to work on U.S branding, which we all know that Trump is a master at. If you want a brand to have value, you gotta let people know that you can't get it for free and you gotta make it feel exclusive. Why do people buy Apple phones or Apple products as oppose to other brands? Think about that. You want to have exclusivity. Tightening immigration does exactly that. Imagine if Trump succeeds in branding the U.S as the ONLY place people want to work if they have valuable skills, think about what that will do for our economy.
tl;dr Just because Trump says or plans something doesn't mean it's going to happen exactly that. He just uses it as a negotiation to get what he actually want. For example, he had a deal he made to purchase a property (iirc it might have been Doral Hotel). He had the contract for 170 million for the property and made a ridiculous countering offer for 100 million, the others said 150 million and he took it no problem without batting an eye. He anchors peoples mind to the 100 million offer when all he really cares about is getting less money on the deal and he'd be more than happy to take 150 million as opposed to 170 mill regardless he didn't get the 100 million dollar offer.
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| tough guy talix wrote: | | i've had it with your shit. fuck outta here |
Last edited by Antagonist on Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:06 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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M.
Master Cheater
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 267
Location: wat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Antagonist wrote: | There's probably something you don't understand about Trump's immigration plan that not many people understand either because the reporters that report it are political reporters and people in general aren't business minded.
Trump uses the immigration plan as a negotiation. The opening offer of the plan is an anchor, which is a cognitive bias for which people focus too much on the first idea or in information when making decision. That's how world class negotiators like Trump work. The first offer has no actual purpose other than to start a negotiation where both parties eventually agree. So his plan has 2 ridiculous ideas:
1.) Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country
2.) Deporting 12 illegal immigrants
It's very unlikely to happen and a lot of people think it's ridiculous and they'd be right to think so. For Trump, if he was a goal-thinker he'd most likely fail at achieving these, but that's not how he thinks. He's willing to take less or use misdirection to get what he primarily want - the wall. He knows this because he plays a long game and every move is a negotiation. How do you even convince TWO countries to agree on having a wall? He wants the wall and wants Mexico to pay for it also. That's a big ask. This is a negotiation strategy (I'm in sales, I understand sales/negotiation strategies), but what he's most likely going to do, which he's already laying out the foundation, is start with an opening offer that anchor's peoples mind to the most ridiculous and outrageous part of the plan and simply exchange (which is the negotiation process) parts away until you get what you want: the wall. Congress will feel that the negotiation has happened and that both parties have met in the middle. Except Trump is the one that decide where the middle is. And he's really good at making it ambiguous. Just notice how he doesn't state specific things unless he has to. Notice how he's able to notice people's choice of words and when they have said things that he thinks will hold them back: i.e when he mentions that Bernie Sanders chances against Hillary Clinton is slim because he mentioned the e-mails weren't important in the Democratic debate or when he mentions that Marco Rubio - IF he becomes president, he'd have a lot of trouble with Putin for calling him a gangster, because he just limited himself and have to cover so much grounds to get around that. In the end he's good at gathering information and manipulating information (he knows how much to give and how much to keep) as Mark Twain said - "Gather all your facts, and you can distort them as you please"
So he gets the wall and the next logical step is most likely creating some sort of path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants (assuming he traded this away too for the wall). This will make both sides feel like they won something. Trump wouldn't be able to say though that the illegal immigrants gets a free pass while trying to build the wall. That would trigger a wave of people coming into the country illegally to beat the construction of the wall.
We can also look at the immigration plan to work on U.S branding, which we all know that Trump is a master at. If you want a brand to have value, you gotta let people know that you can't get it for free and you gotta make it feel exclusive. Why do people buy Apple phones or Apple products as oppose to other brands? Think about that. You want to have exclusivity. Tightening immigration does exactly that. Imagine if Trump succeeds in branding the U.S as the ONLY place people want to work if they have valuable skills, think about what that will do for our economy. |
12 illegal immigrants? Man how are they going to catch so many
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finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?
 Reputation: 13
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| as a native american, i see this very differently
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Kurifodo
I post too much
Reputation: 23
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 2782
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Antagonist wrote: | There's probably something you don't understand about Trump's immigration plan that not many people understand either because the reporters that report it are political reporters and people in general aren't business minded.
Trump uses the immigration plan as a negotiation. The opening offer of the plan is an anchor, which is a cognitive bias for which people focus too much on the first idea or in information when making decision. That's how world class negotiators like Trump work. The first offer has no actual purpose other than to start a negotiation where both parties eventually agree. So his plan has 2 ridiculous ideas:
1.) Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country
2.) Deporting 12 illegal immigrants
It's very unlikely to happen and a lot of people think it's ridiculous and they'd be right to think so. For Trump, if he was a goal-thinker he'd most likely fail at achieving these, but that's not how he thinks. He's willing to take less or use misdirection to get what he primarily want - the wall. He knows this because he plays a long game and every move is a negotiation. How do you even convince TWO countries to agree on having a wall? He wants the wall and wants Mexico to pay for it also. That's a big ask. This is a negotiation strategy (I'm in sales, I understand sales/negotiation strategies), but what he's most likely going to do, which he's already laying out the foundation, is start with an opening offer that anchor's peoples mind to the most ridiculous and outrageous part of the plan and simply exchange (which is the negotiation process) parts away until you get what you want: the wall. Congress will feel that the negotiation has happened and that both parties have met in the middle. Except Trump is the one that decide where the middle is. And he's really good at making it ambiguous. Just notice how he doesn't state specific things unless he has to. Notice how he's able to notice people's choice of words and when they have said things that he thinks will hold them back: i.e when he mentions that Bernie Sanders chances against Hillary Clinton is slim because he mentioned the e-mails weren't important in the Democratic debate or when he mentions that Marco Rubio - IF he becomes president, he'd have a lot of trouble with Putin for calling him a gangster, because he just limited himself and have to cover so much grounds to get around that. In the end he's good at gathering information and manipulating information (he knows how much to give and how much to keep) as Mark Twain said - "Gather all your facts, and you can distort them as you please"
So he gets the wall and the next logical step is most likely creating some sort of path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants (assuming he traded this away too for the wall). This will make both sides feel like they won something. Trump wouldn't be able to say though that the illegal immigrants gets a free pass while trying to build the wall. That would trigger a wave of people coming into the country illegally to beat the construction of the wall.
We can also look at the immigration plan to work on U.S branding, which we all know that Trump is a master at. If you want a brand to have value, you gotta let people know that you can't get it for free and you gotta make it feel exclusive. Why do people buy Apple phones or Apple products as oppose to other brands? Think about that. You want to have exclusivity. Tightening immigration does exactly that. Imagine if Trump succeeds in branding the U.S as the ONLY place people want to work if they have valuable skills, think about what that will do for our economy.
tl;dr Just because Trump says or plans something doesn't mean it's going to happen exactly that. He just uses it as a negotiation to get what he actually want. For example, he had a deal he made to purchase a property (iirc it might have been Doral Hotel). He had the contract for 170 million for the property and made a ridiculous countering offer for 100 million, the others said 150 million and he took it no problem without batting an eye. He anchors peoples mind to the 100 million offer when all he really cares about is getting less money on the deal and he'd be more than happy to take 150 million as opposed to 170 mill regardless he didn't get the 100 million dollar offer. |
You are wrong about:
| Quote: | | Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country |
Trump doesn't want to change or replace the 14th amendment, he just wants a different interpretation of it. He actually has a decent argument for it.
14th Amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
His argument is illegal immigrants aren't within jurisdiction, so children of illegal immigrants would be an exception to the 14th. As you know, Marbury v. Madison decided Judicial Review can change the legal interpretation of the constitution. Even as president, Trump can't change the interpretation of the constitution, but he can certainly influence the courts to do so.
I like your post, your take on his future plans and philosophy seems on point, but I think you are overrating his business skills. While he is fantastic at gathering information and manipulating it to his benefit, he has advisers who gather information for him just like all the other candidates.
Infact, the only reason why many of Trump's policies are unknown is because he never held a public office position, so he never needed to publicly state his positions on every issue. Meanwhile, all of the other candidates have held previous government positions, so their ideology is already 100% available to the public (i.e we already know where Jeb Bush stands on all issues because he was governor of Florida). Trump has the luxury of being able to slowly reveal his ideas overtime strategically like a game of chess, meanwhile all the other candidates already had their ideas on the table years ago.
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Channel GannoK
pffrt
 Reputation: 130
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 608
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Antagonist wrote: | There's probably something you don't understand about Trump's immigration plan that not many people understand either because the reporters that report it are political reporters and people in general aren't business minded.
Trump uses the immigration plan as a negotiation. The opening offer of the plan is an anchor, which is a cognitive bias for which people focus too much on the first idea or in information when making decision. That's how world class negotiators like Trump work. The first offer has no actual purpose other than to start a negotiation where both parties eventually agree. So his plan has 2 ridiculous ideas:
1.) Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country
2.) Deporting 12 illegal immigrants
It's very unlikely to happen and a lot of people think it's ridiculous and they'd be right to think so. For Trump, if he was a goal-thinker he'd most likely fail at achieving these, but that's not how he thinks. He's willing to take less or use misdirection to get what he primarily want - the wall. He knows this because he plays a long game and every move is a negotiation. How do you even convince TWO countries to agree on having a wall? He wants the wall and wants Mexico to pay for it also. That's a big ask. This is a negotiation strategy (I'm in sales, I understand sales/negotiation strategies), but what he's most likely going to do, which he's already laying out the foundation, is start with an opening offer that anchor's peoples mind to the most ridiculous and outrageous part of the plan and simply exchange (which is the negotiation process) parts away until you get what you want: the wall. Congress will feel that the negotiation has happened and that both parties have met in the middle. Except Trump is the one that decide where the middle is. And he's really good at making it ambiguous. Just notice how he doesn't state specific things unless he has to. Notice how he's able to notice people's choice of words and when they have said things that he thinks will hold them back: i.e when he mentions that Bernie Sanders chances against Hillary Clinton is slim because he mentioned the e-mails weren't important in the Democratic debate or when he mentions that Marco Rubio - IF he becomes president, he'd have a lot of trouble with Putin for calling him a gangster, because he just limited himself and have to cover so much grounds to get around that. In the end he's good at gathering information and manipulating information (he knows how much to give and how much to keep) as Mark Twain said - "Gather all your facts, and you can distort them as you please"
So he gets the wall and the next logical step is most likely creating some sort of path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants (assuming he traded this away too for the wall). This will make both sides feel like they won something. Trump wouldn't be able to say though that the illegal immigrants gets a free pass while trying to build the wall. That would trigger a wave of people coming into the country illegally to beat the construction of the wall.
We can also look at the immigration plan to work on U.S branding, which we all know that Trump is a master at. If you want a brand to have value, you gotta let people know that you can't get it for free and you gotta make it feel exclusive. Why do people buy Apple phones or Apple products as oppose to other brands? Think about that. You want to have exclusivity. Tightening immigration does exactly that. Imagine if Trump succeeds in branding the U.S as the ONLY place people want to work if they have valuable skills, think about what that will do for our economy.
tl;dr Just because Trump says or plans something doesn't mean it's going to happen exactly that. He just uses it as a negotiation to get what he actually want. For example, he had a deal he made to purchase a property (iirc it might have been Doral Hotel). He had the contract for 170 million for the property and made a ridiculous countering offer for 100 million, the others said 150 million and he took it no problem without batting an eye. He anchors peoples mind to the 100 million offer when all he really cares about is getting less money on the deal and he'd be more than happy to take 150 million as opposed to 170 mill regardless he didn't get the 100 million dollar offer. |
Actually Trump says you don't even need to worry about the amendment, you don't need it apparently and you can just deport millions. Just watched him say this yesterday
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br0l0ck
Cheater
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| greatsage wrote: | | as a native american, i see this very differently |
lmao
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cokefag
Master Cheater
 Reputation: 51
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 488
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Antagonist wrote: | There's probably something you don't understand about Trump's immigration plan that not many people understand either because the reporters that report it are political reporters and people in general aren't business minded.
Trump uses the immigration plan as a negotiation. The opening offer of the plan is an anchor, which is a cognitive bias for which people focus too much on the first idea or in information when making decision. That's how world class negotiators like Trump work. The first offer has no actual purpose other than to start a negotiation where both parties eventually agree. So his plan has 2 ridiculous ideas:
1.) Changing the constitution to remove the right of citizenship for people born in this country
2.) Deporting 12 illegal immigrants
It's very unlikely to happen and a lot of people think it's ridiculous and they'd be right to think so. For Trump, if he was a goal-thinker he'd most likely fail at achieving these, but that's not how he thinks. He's willing to take less or use misdirection to get what he primarily want - the wall. He knows this because he plays a long game and every move is a negotiation. How do you even convince TWO countries to agree on having a wall? He wants the wall and wants Mexico to pay for it also. That's a big ask. This is a negotiation strategy (I'm in sales, I understand sales/negotiation strategies), but what he's most likely going to do, which he's already laying out the foundation, is start with an opening offer that anchor's peoples mind to the most ridiculous and outrageous part of the plan and simply exchange (which is the negotiation process) parts away until you get what you want: the wall. Congress will feel that the negotiation has happened and that both parties have met in the middle. Except Trump is the one that decide where the middle is. And he's really good at making it ambiguous. Just notice how he doesn't state specific things unless he has to. Notice how he's able to notice people's choice of words and when they have said things that he thinks will hold them back: i.e when he mentions that Bernie Sanders chances against Hillary Clinton is slim because he mentioned the e-mails weren't important in the Democratic debate or when he mentions that Marco Rubio - IF he becomes president, he'd have a lot of trouble with Putin for calling him a gangster, because he just limited himself and have to cover so much grounds to get around that. In the end he's good at gathering information and manipulating information (he knows how much to give and how much to keep) as Mark Twain said - "Gather all your facts, and you can distort them as you please"
So he gets the wall and the next logical step is most likely creating some sort of path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants (assuming he traded this away too for the wall). This will make both sides feel like they won something. Trump wouldn't be able to say though that the illegal immigrants gets a free pass while trying to build the wall. That would trigger a wave of people coming into the country illegally to beat the construction of the wall.
We can also look at the immigration plan to work on U.S branding, which we all know that Trump is a master at. If you want a brand to have value, you gotta let people know that you can't get it for free and you gotta make it feel exclusive. Why do people buy Apple phones or Apple products as oppose to other brands? Think about that. You want to have exclusivity. Tightening immigration does exactly that. Imagine if Trump succeeds in branding the U.S as the ONLY place people want to work if they have valuable skills, think about what that will do for our economy.
tl;dr Just because Trump says or plans something doesn't mean it's going to happen exactly that. He just uses it as a negotiation to get what he actually want. For example, he had a deal he made to purchase a property (iirc it might have been Doral Hotel). He had the contract for 170 million for the property and made a ridiculous countering offer for 100 million, the others said 150 million and he took it no problem without batting an eye. He anchors peoples mind to the 100 million offer when all he really cares about is getting less money on the deal and he'd be more than happy to take 150 million as opposed to 170 mill regardless he didn't get the 100 million dollar offer. |
tl;dr door in the face and foot in the door
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paupav
Master Cheater
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 314
Location: P. Sherman 42, Wallaby Way, Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| You all are illegally there. That country belongs to the Native Americans, not to the African-americans or European- americans.
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ControlAltDelete
Friendly Giant
 Reputation: 157
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | greatsage wrote: | | as a native american, i see this very differently |
lmao |
_________________
| Shrooms wrote: | | but sadly this is 1984 and western civilization the last ones standing at the top of titanic before it sinks...no matter what you do, they know |
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ControlAltDelete
Friendly Giant
Reputation: 157
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | greatsage wrote: | | as a native american, i see this very differently |
lmao |
_________________
| Shrooms wrote: | | but sadly this is 1984 and western civilization the last ones standing at the top of titanic before it sinks...no matter what you do, they know |
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paupav
Master Cheater
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 314
Location: P. Sherman 42, Wallaby Way, Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ControlAltDelete wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | | greatsage wrote: | | as a native american, i see this very differently |
lmao |
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Lol
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AverageAzn247
Grandmaster Cheater
Reputation: 34
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 909
Location: Austin,TX with 72 virgins
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ... wrote: | | You all are illegally there. That country belongs to the Native Americans, not to the African-americans or European- americans. |
whom came here from Russia. Thus America actually belongs to the commies. Just no...
_________________
| Waxxup wrote: | What are Night Elves?
A girl group? |
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cokefag
Master Cheater
Reputation: 51
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 488
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Shrooms wrote: | Build a wall on both sides.
Make pipeline keystone into jewmerica (offer tump a offer a business man cannot refuse since he. Jew)
Plus all the other pipelines...blow it up.
Merica burns in hell inside a nice walled system
Leggo
Rome v2 |
that's what a wall is faggot
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