Cheat Engine :: View topic - Protecting our tables/trainers with passwords

Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Protecting our tables/trainers with passwords
Goto page Previous 1, 2

Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General Discussions

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

atom0s
Moderator

Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8588
Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject:

Actually I knew how because I know VBS. I used to use it in-depth for work related things. _________________ - Retired.

aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater

Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject:

STN wrote:

Warning: This is a subject i was fond of years back and played with it for a good while so long post ahead (but you will enjoy it and learn a thing so read Very Happy

).

Years back, there was a rather interesting discussion on a reversing forum i used to frequent by lena (a really awesome reverser) about if you can completely stop people from reversing and she believed you can when most didn't. This thread reminded me of that. I am of the same idea, yes you can!. Put enough code virtualization/self-modifying code and anti-tricks that it is a pain to understand one instruction of program and you will stop anyone from even bothering. Even for a challenge, there is only so far some people will go, even the experts will give up and that is pretty much 100% protection.

Sure, its not really uncrackable but practically, increase the difficulty and the time required and it is uncrackable. I made a keygenme around the same time and posted on these forums, the trick was a simple NOT instruction that i used for protection (i am serious) and nobody had any idea what it was doing (atomos/wiccaan took a crack at it and failed). Imagine putting any more tricks in it and taking a gander at the code would have been hard.

So, considering the skill level of people in ghing, you can make a unsteal-able trainer with the least effort but you are going to have to make a sacrifice. AVs going berserk, loss of user-friendliness. If you make a trainer once every year then that is feasible but if you constantly have to make trainer for your site then its a deal-breaker and it is the reason why i stopped protecting my trainers or even packing them because i make them for mass consumption. The stuff i truly care about, i don't share it and it stays protected that way.

Now actually good job on the protector AikonCWD, at least for the idea. But don't use VBS, its like using batch file to protect your shit, you are giving out the source of your protector and then wondering how did you cracked it so easy. Even VB would have been fine to use or any programming language really.

For people wondering how did atomos know to use MsgBox to output that and going OMG you are awesome. Here is how and the secret
The OP is using chr function.
http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/func_chr.asp
Pretty basic - converts the specified ANSI character code to a character
Execute function is self-explanatory but still take a look at this example
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/030300-1.shtml

So how do you crack this crypto code ? a MsgBox sufficed or if you want to be creative, write that in a txt file or whatever comes to mind. Or hey go and input the ansi chars in Cheat Engine Hex viewer and be surprised as it starts translating into words Very Happy

.

I don't know VBS but you don't need to, it is simple english Wink

.

PS: I don't really understand why you would want to protect a cheat table, it is made to be shared. Don't share it if you don't want to share it ??????

Thats right, If you put a lot of tricks, protectors, packers, VM's, etc etc etc will be a pain in the ass and nobody wants to spend hours to crack that shit. But your final EXE will be detected by all antivirus, and every ASM line will use like 4000% cpu usage, I don't like to do that.

Quote:

PS: I don't really understand why you would want to protect a cheat table, it is made to be shared. Don't share it if you don't want to share it ??????

Thats not my philosophy, I always share my codes and sources for compiled trainers, but some users want to know how to code some shittyprotection to prevents copypasters... I think something like this will do the trick, right?

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

), any other users can't make a trainer for that game, if you put a lot of protecttions you will stop like 80% usrs, but experts users like at0mos can still crack it, because NOTHING is uncrackeable Smile

[/img]

Quote:

Actually I knew how because I know VBS. I used to use it in-depth for work related things.

I use A LOT vbs on my work too, it make sysadmin & IT easy Smile

_________________

Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE

atom0s
Moderator

Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8588
Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject:

AikonCWD wrote:

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

)

Which address did I miss? o.o
_________________

- Retired.

aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater

Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject:

atom0s wrote:

AikonCWD wrote:

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

)

Which address did I miss? o.o

The eye-count, you dumped 100% how that address works, but I thinks there is no suitable way to make a working table for that tricky address, I am right?
_________________

Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE

atom0s
Moderator

Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8588
Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject:

AikonCWD wrote:

atom0s wrote:

AikonCWD wrote:

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

)

Which address did I miss? o.o

The eye-count, you dumped 100% how that address works, but I thinks there is no suitable way to make a working table for that tricky address, I am right?

Oh right. In theory, you can with an auto-assembly script but was no real point in making it since I posted how it worked anyway.
_________________

- Retired.

aikoncwd
Grandmaster Cheater

Reputation: 23

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 591
Location: Spain (Barcelona)

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject:

atom0s wrote:

AikonCWD wrote:

atom0s wrote:

AikonCWD wrote:

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

)

Which address did I miss? o.o

The eye-count, you dumped 100% how that address works, but I thinks there is no suitable way to make a working table for that tricky address, I am right?

Oh right. In theory, you can with an auto-assembly script but was no real point in making it since I posted how it worked anyway.

Absolutelly agree Smile

You did a great job. But I'm impressed that nobody (except you) beat my "game", even I re-post the same game without CE detectors...

If I have time, I will make a v2 of that game, but I will be mad if I spend hours on that and only you will try to "crack" it Sad

_________________

Hey Hitler
Test here your skill with CheatEngine, I coded a challenge for you. Try to beat it!
HERE

atom0s
Moderator

Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8588
Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject:

If you post a v2 I will just pm you the answer(s) for it that time then so people don't just either copy my table/information or be discouraged from posting their own solution. _________________ - Retired.

STN
I post too much

Reputation: 43

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 2673

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject:

AikonCWD wrote:

For example, take a look at my sig, I posted a "game", only at0mos cracked it (excepect 1 address that he can't make a table for it Razz

[/img]

Yeah i have noticed that a couple times but never bothered with it because its already cracked which wasn't as challenging to me. Besides, its been more than half a decade since i coded or cracked a crackme so i don't think i can do better. There is an intuition you develop/need that rips apart the code pieces and makes it make sense, hard to explain but i have lost it, blame CE's awesome easiness for it Very Happy

_________________

Cheat Requests/Tables- Fearless Cheat Engine
https://fearlessrevolution.com

Xillica
Cheater

Reputation: 1

Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 45

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject:

STN wrote:

Years back, there was a rather interesting discussion on a reversing forum i used to frequent by lena (a really awesome reverser) about if you can completely stop people from reversing and she believed you can when most didn't. This thread reminded me of that. I am of the same idea, yes you can!. Put enough code virtualization/self-modifying code and anti-tricks that it is a pain to understand one instruction of program and you will stop anyone from even bothering. Even for a challenge, there is only so far some people will go, even the experts will give up and that is pretty much 100% protection.

Sure, its not really uncrackable but practically, increase the difficulty and the time required and it is uncrackable. I made a keygenme around the same time and posted on these forums, the trick was a simple NOT instruction that i used for protection (i am serious) and nobody had any idea what it was doing (atomos/wiccaan took a crack at it and failed). Imagine putting any more tricks in it and taking a gander at the code would have been hard.

So, considering the skill level of people in ghing, you can make a unsteal-able trainer with the least effort but you are going to have to make a sacrifice. AVs going berserk, loss of user-friendliness. If you make a trainer once every year then that is feasible but if you constantly have to make trainer for your site then its a deal-breaker and it is the reason why i stopped protecting my trainers or even packing them because i make them for mass consumption. The stuff i truly care about, i don't share it and it stays protected that way.

Pretty interesting, thanks for sharing Smile

.
Question: What programming language that is good for starting of (to improve my logical thinking)? Pretty interested to learn lua, but need to have good understanding with assembly first (or is it possible for me to learn it altogether?)

STN wrote:

PS: I don't really understand why you would want to protect a cheat table, it is made to be shared. Don't share it if you don't want to share it ??????

Some trainer makers are stealing cheat tables from here, and use it for personal gains, that's what I don't like. Actually I gladly share my table freely here in cheatengine forum. Maybe with some protection or so, I can just give the key for anyone that really want to learn or understand (not for some copy pasters that use it for their trainers, then use it for their gains).

Actually I'm going OMG for atom0s, because atom0s analysis skills in forum made me amazed, like for the post about trainer that contains malwares, AikonCWD challenge, then he knows many things from simple to very complex things, and I know there are other experts like him here (but hey, I'm nothing compared to them so I'm amazed from his posts and asking about how many programming language he knows). Because I think, you will need more than one programming language to do analysis and so on, basically you won't get far/anywhere with only just one programming language knowledge.
_________________

Toukiden Kiwami cheat table: forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?p=5600876#5600876

atom0s
Moderator

Reputation: 205

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 8588
Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject:

Xillica wrote:

Question: What programming language that is good for starting of (to improve my logical thinking)? Pretty interested to learn lua, but need to have good understanding with assembly first (or is it possible for me to learn it altogether?)

It is best for you to find a language that fits your needs and that you feel comfortable with learning. Every language has their own differences and such, be it syntax, or overall usage. That said, many languages can be used to create game hacks / trainers. It is easier in some then others, some languages have certain limitations, etc.

If you want to really get into game hacking and take programming serious, your better off learning C/C++ in the long run.

If you just want to create external trainers and want a higher-level language, C# is good as well.

You should take the time to learn and understand [at least the basics] ASM. It is something you will use daily in game hacking so it is best to understand what is going on. The reference documentation by Intel is great to get really in depth with what each instruction does and how it interacts with other instructions. There are plenty of other resources online that cover the basics of ASM as well.

Xillica wrote:

Actually I'm going OMG for atom0s, because atom0s analysis skills in forum made me amazed, like for the post about trainer that contains malwares, AikonCWD challenge, then he knows many things from simple to very complex things, and I know there are other experts like him here (but hey, I'm nothing compared to them so I'm amazed from his posts and asking about how many programming language he knows). Because I think, you will need more than one programming language to do analysis and so on, basically you won't get far/anywhere with only just one programming language knowledge.

Heh, thanks for enjoying what I do.
_________________

- Retired.

Xillica
Cheater

Reputation: 1

Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 45

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:26 am Post subject:

atom0s wrote:

Ah, I already learned basic C before then I jumped on other languages like C++, Java. I really underestimated programming languages back in the day, like thinking "Ah, I can do this later when I have free time" or "I don't need to rush since, learning programming language seems not that hard". The results? Actually I stopped learning for 2 years, and my knowledge about each programming language that I've learned before is equal to nil right now (because I jumped back and forth before actually learned the concepts very well). But now, I have learned from my past mistake and will try to keep good mindset when learning.

atom0s wrote:

Heh, thanks for enjoying what I do.

xD, I will keep tailing your post every time I have free time. Since it's usually has high quality content or right to the point. (Other users too, but so far only Zanzer, STN, and you that have helped since I joined this forum 6 days ago)

Note: Sorry for going a bit off-topic here, hope you don't mind AikonCWD or Moderators. For now thanks for this thread, I learned many things once again (from AikonCWD, STN, and atom0s).
_________________

Toukiden Kiwami cheat table: forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?p=5600876#5600876

Display posts from previous:

	Cheat Engine Forum Index -> General Discussions	All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2
Page 2 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum