Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 1757 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:34 am Post subject:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
Aniblaze wrote:
When you talk about your addiction, you talk about it as if it's a disease that's incurable. It feels like you have a defeatist attitude towards it. This might be the reason why you keep going back to it, because you believe you can't stop.
addiction actually fits the disease model. it is widely accepted as a disease. do some research. theres still a lot of debate about it of course and always will be. and no, theres no cure. contratrt to that commerical of passages malibu where the guy says i was an addict for ten years now im not. thats totally false. youre an addict the rest of your life. science has no found a cure for addiction, just like there is no publicly known cure for cancer or other mental health problem like bipolar disorder. there is treatment that needs to be maintained for the rest of your life but no cure.
and no if.youve followed my posts youd know without a doubt that i do NOT believe i am hopeless and i KNOW i can stop. that doesnt mean it will be easy or happen the first several attemps which is common for addicts. it will take time and a lot of effort. but i have no accepted i will be using the rest of my life and i know its possible to stop. why would i put all this effort into quitting if i didnt brlieve on what i was doing?
Since you started off a bit passive aggressive there, I am going to level with you here in a similar negative tone: I consider those who at some point in their life decided sticking a needle with heroin in their arm was a solid plan to be incredible retards. There is no need to do that shit, and peer pressure is such a poor excuse, as it means you were just being a sheep. We all have shit to deal with, and I've had things in my life happen that would, using junkie logic, validate me using harddrugs. Terminally ill mother (Huntington's disease), my dad getting cancer twice (but recovered), the chance of inheriting said diseases, perhaps not being able to start a family because of it, losing 12 other close family members between the age of 10 to 15, being bullied and rejected during highschool due to my ensuing PTSS making me socially inept, failing pretty much all of my classes because I did not care anymore, etc, etc, etc. I could make a longer list but those are the highlights. I've never resorted to drugs or alcohol to deal with my problems. The first time I did drugs was when I was around close friends, because I was curious to what the effect would be (I was 20 at the time). I did it a couple of times, but never did anything that you'd need to inject or snort. Nothing that could be considered physically addictive.
That said, I want to believe in your tenacity to kick this shit, and I truly hope you'll be able to. It just felt like you were victimizing yourself after reading some of your posts (I don't always respond, but I read most of it). And I hate that so goddamn much. It's why I often hate alcoholics, junkies, and fatties (if they have that type of attitude towards their addiction). It's a weakness I'm afraid to ever see in myself.
He can't help it. They drill that stuff into you during the AA/NA-style treatment that he's in. All the way down to mantras and chants and stuff. I doubt he even sees the irony in his belief that addiction is an illness requiring long-term treatment but people with ADD or depression just need to man up. _________________
A nagy kapu mellett, mindig van egy kis kapu.
----------------------
Come on...
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 314 Location: P. Sherman 42, Wallaby Way, Sydney
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:48 am Post subject:
I know few people that do drugs but they are aware of their actions and some people that don't do drugs but are unaware of their actions. If that helps him to be emotionally stable leave him alone.
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 909 Location: Austin,TX with 72 virgins
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:13 pm Post subject:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
its not what they teach. its what i experienced. heroin and xanax literally makes you not give a fuck about ANYTHING. you dont care about consequences. it has nothing to do woth intelligence or how smart you are. i was aware of what i was doing part of the time. other part of the time i was in a blackout every day for three years. it literally hurts my brain to think back on that three year period because i only remember brief flashes of that time. rational thinking goes out the window. these are not thinks i learned in aa. these are things i learned through experience. something you guys lack. never once did i include peer pressure as a reason. im not justifying any of my actions because of the drugs. that doesnt make anything i did ok. also i did not care whether i lived or died at that point in my life. why would i care about sticking a needle of heroin or meth in my arm? and i didnt start drugs with a needle of heroin. it was a progression of five years before i touched heroin and another six months before a needle. there have bewn many recovering addicts and alcoholics that have gone through divorce, death of parents, loss of jobs, house etc. in sobriety but they were able to stay sober. i didnt use drugs for any logical reason to begin with. i didnt have any shitty situations in my life. i am just sick in the head.
and the reason i say that and believe this is a lifelong process is because no matter how long an alcoholic or addict stays sober the moment i take another drink or drug through personal experience and countless experiences of others that have had 10-20 years sober the moment i or they have taken another drink or drug they cant control it. maybe it wont happen right away, maybe a week or a month later theyre right back to where they were in their addiction. in my experience every time ive tried to control my drinking and drug use i find myself drinking every day, smoking weed every day, meth, heroin, xanax, whatever the substance im doing it everyday and eeventually if its not heroin the high is lackluster and im chasing the heroin high bit not getting what i want and eventually say fuck it and go back to heroin. same for others. ive met people with 5-20 years sober that relapsed and started drinking wveryday and within six months where right back where they were before they got sober. so yeh it never goes away. once you pass the line of addiction and alcoholism its basically the point of no return. your only options are to not use any mind altering substances at all or be using all day everyday without control.
tl;dr don't start doing hard drugs _________________
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 1757 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:38 am Post subject:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
this is how every thread about drug addiction on cef turns out. usually not to this extent tho. a drug addict with experience giving facts and education about drug addiction that they dont teach you and uneducated responses by everyone else that has no idea about drug addiction which is VERY apparant by their responses.
I used to hit myself in the face with a baseball bat, but now I don't anymore and tell others the things they don't tell you about hitting yourself in the face with a baseball bat. I get very uneducated responses to me trying to help teach other the things that happen when you hit yourself in the face with a baseball bat, and why you shouldn't do that.
this is how every thread about drug addiction on cef turns out. usually not to this extent tho. a drug addict with experience giving facts and education about drug addiction that they dont teach you and uneducated responses by everyone else that has no idea about drug addiction which is VERY apparant by their responses.
I used to hit myself in the face with a baseball bat, but now I don't anymore and tell others the things they don't tell you about hitting yourself in the face with a baseball bat. I get very uneducated responses to me trying to help teach other the things that happen when you hit yourself in the face with a baseball bat, and why you shouldn't do that.
This. This is what you sound like.
That's what he sounds like to you specifically. I'd like to suggest to you that there very well may be people who are just not susceptible to substance abuse. I happen to be one these people and I'm guessing you are as well. As an anecdote, I took oxycontin for a few weeks after I fell off my bike last year and broke some bones. It got me stoned as fuck, but I didn't really enjoy the feeling very much. As someone with a non-addictive personality, I could not fathom continuing taking it after I was mostly recovered.
You have to imagine that for some people, drugs give a better feeling than they've ever experienced sober.
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 1757 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull. Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks both legs.
On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the jaywalking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?
You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to admit if we substituted alcoholism for jay-walking, the illustration would fit exactly. However intelligent we may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. It's strong language but isn't it true?
Some of you are thinking: "Yes, what you tell is true, but it doesn't fully apply. We admit we have some of these symptoms, but we have not gone to the extremes you fellows did, nor are we likely to, for we understand ourselves so well after what you have told us that such things cannot happen again. We have not lost everything in life through drinking and we certainly do not intend to. Thanks for the information."
That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. This is a point we wish to emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of bitter experience
Totally fair description of drug users for an outsider. I can't imagine being like this. I used to have somewhat of an eating problem. I addressed it as a problem, and took care of it. I feel that to be normal. Why wait until you're 200 pounds overweight and you can't wipe your own ass without a forklift? Why press the gas pedal when you're heading straight for a tree when you know you need to press the breaks? Truly all of my what.
Phox wrote:
Aniblaze wrote:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
this is how every thread about drug addiction on cef turns out. usually not to this extent tho. a drug addict with experience giving facts and education about drug addiction that they dont teach you and uneducated responses by everyone else that has no idea about drug addiction which is VERY apparant by their responses.
I used to hit myself in the face with a baseball bat, but now I don't anymore and tell others the things they don't tell you about hitting yourself in the face with a baseball bat. I get very uneducated responses to me trying to help teach other the things that happen when you hit yourself in the face with a baseball bat, and why you shouldn't do that.
This. This is what you sound like.
That's what he sounds like to you specifically. I'd like to suggest to you that there very well may be people who are just not susceptible to substance abuse. I happen to be one these people and I'm guessing you are as well. As an anecdote, I took oxycontin for a few weeks after I fell off my bike last year and broke some bones. It got me stoned as fuck, but I didn't really enjoy the feeling very much. As someone with a non-addictive personality, I could not fathom continuing taking it after I was mostly recovered.
You have to imagine that for some people, drugs give a better feeling than they've ever experienced sober.
That might be true. My grandma was the same. She used to smoke, then decided to quit cold turkey once the news got out that smoking was bad (long ago), but still smoked at parties. When she got to 65+ she stopped smoking all together. Nobody could understand how she did it, because all of the smokers could not lay off a cigarette for more than a week before relapsing.
And here I am, having tried multiple things that could be considered addictive, and I'm doing none. The last time I drank was months ago, I tried a cigarette (joint) once years ago and felt so underwhelmed by it I didn't understand the fascination, and have tried the usual party drugs but never more than twice. I'm curious what morphine feels like, so perhaps if I get that I'll somewhat understand what's so great about heroin, but I couldn't be arsed. It doesn't scare me, but it doesn't excite me either. Also, I can't imagine getting addicted to anything, because despite all the shit there's nothing I'd want to escape from.
Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull. Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks both legs.
On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the jaywalking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?
You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to admit if we substituted alcoholism for jay-walking, the illustration would fit exactly. However intelligent we may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. It's strong language but isn't it true?
Some of you are thinking: "Yes, what you tell is true, but it doesn't fully apply. We admit we have some of these symptoms, but we have not gone to the extremes you fellows did, nor are we likely to, for we understand ourselves so well after what you have told us that such things cannot happen again. We have not lost everything in life through drinking and we certainly do not intend to. Thanks for the information."
That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. This is a point we wish to emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of bitter experience
Totally fair description of drug users for an outsider. I can't imagine being like this. I used to have somewhat of an eating problem. I addressed it as a problem, and took care of it. I feel that to be normal. Why wait until you're 200 pounds overweight and you can't wipe your own ass without a forklift? Why press the gas pedal when you're heading straight for a tree when you know you need to press the breaks? Truly all of my what.
Phox wrote:
Aniblaze wrote:
TheIndianGuy wrote:
this is how every thread about drug addiction on cef turns out. usually not to this extent tho. a drug addict with experience giving facts and education about drug addiction that they dont teach you and uneducated responses by everyone else that has no idea about drug addiction which is VERY apparant by their responses.
I used to hit myself in the face with a baseball bat, but now I don't anymore and tell others the things they don't tell you about hitting yourself in the face with a baseball bat. I get very uneducated responses to me trying to help teach other the things that happen when you hit yourself in the face with a baseball bat, and why you shouldn't do that.
This. This is what you sound like.
That's what he sounds like to you specifically. I'd like to suggest to you that there very well may be people who are just not susceptible to substance abuse. I happen to be one these people and I'm guessing you are as well. As an anecdote, I took oxycontin for a few weeks after I fell off my bike last year and broke some bones. It got me stoned as fuck, but I didn't really enjoy the feeling very much. As someone with a non-addictive personality, I could not fathom continuing taking it after I was mostly recovered.
You have to imagine that for some people, drugs give a better feeling than they've ever experienced sober.
That might be true. My grandma was the same. She used to smoke, then decided to quit cold turkey once the news got out that smoking was bad (long ago), but still smoked at parties. When she got to 65+ she stopped smoking all together. Nobody could understand how she did it, because all of the smokers could not lay off a cigarette for more than a week before relapsing.
And here I am, having tried multiple things that could be considered addictive, and I'm doing none. The last time I drank was months ago, I tried a cigarette (joint) once years ago and felt so underwhelmed by it I didn't understand the fascination, and have tried the usual party drugs but never more than twice. I'm curious what morphine feels like, so perhaps if I get that I'll somewhat understand what's so great about heroin, but I couldn't be arsed. It doesn't scare me, but it doesn't excite me either. Also, I can't imagine getting addicted to anything, because despite all the shit there's nothing I'd want to escape from.
Yo we should party sometime bro. _________________
Ani you need to create receptors for the THC to be converted into the euphoric feeling (not sure on the chemical). This is why many people don't get high their first time or don't really enjoy it. Then there are people who still get high, but it's completely different from every other time smoking, like myself. Shit seemed like a movie to me everything had that effect as if you were watching an old motion film that you could still see the frames. _________________
I'm a young producer and rapper from Washington D.C.
Ani you need to create receptors for the THC to be converted into the euphoric feeling (not sure on the chemical). This is why many people don't get high their first time or don't really enjoy it. Then there are people who still get high, but it's completely different from every other time smoking, like myself. Shit seemed like a movie to me everything had that effect as if you were watching an old motion film that you could still see the frames.
that's literally how my first experience was with smoking weed _________________
having a non-addictive personality doesn't mean you can't enjoy addictive things, it just means you have the objectivity to quit those things or use them carefully to take full advantage of their properties. ive never stuck with one drug for an extended period of time, but id still take any drug I can get my hands on just for the experience of it.
Ani you should actually do any opiate, no other drugs really compare to them, and the pleasure you get from them is abstract if you're not doing it to escape from anything. it makes you realize how you can cheat your body into feeling absolute pleasure without doing anything. you should treat the experience as an experiment and not as something recreational
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