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Anthropoid
How do I cheat?
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Joined: 10 Jan 2015
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 Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hey folks,
Wound up here as I wanted a hex editor to modify some values in the modded user interface (Circle of 8 mod) for "Temple of Elemental Evil."
Though I am very interested in game design, "cheating" per se is not really of interest to me.
So just out of curiousity, why install "trainers" (which I infer are user modified versions of games with very high or infinite values on variables such as health or ammo, etc.)?
Second question: any advise on learning Java and working toward designing my dream game (a Civ like game except with a truly massive map, each hex/tile ~25 miles across, and based on actual anthropology).
ADDIT:
| STN wrote: | . . .
Instead I would advise ditching your antivirus and getting a half decent firewall. . . |
Is there one in particular that you'd recommend for Windows?
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Split this post from the original topic since it had nothing to do with where it was posted.
So to answer your two questions:
A. You don't really install a trainer. You download and run them. Trainers are applications that make modifications to a games memory while it is running to allow the player to have various cheats like 'Infinite Health', 'Infinite Ammo', 'Teleporting', 'Movement Speed Alterations', and so on. It is not an altered game client in nearly any cases. (But that certainly is an option.)
B. If you are planning to get into game development I would not recommend Java unless you really want cross-platform usage of your game. Otherwise I would suggest C/C++ instead for a much better environment for speed and similar.
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Anthropoid
How do I cheat?
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ah thanks Atom.
Thing is, not that many jobs for "C++ programmer" are there?
Java programmer must be more jobs, no?
Plus, [ url= http: // fivedots.coe.psu.ac.th/ ~ad/ jg/ ch00/ index. html Dr. Andrews disagrees with you about Java not being suitable for game programming 
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zm0d
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Anthropoid wrote: | | Java programmer must be more jobs, no? |
There are pretty much jobs available for java programmers, but more likely for Android or web-based stuff (JSF/JSP).
Games are usually created in special game development environments called "Engines". There programmers can work with special, engine specific scripting languages, to develop a game. These engines are usually coded in C/C++ to supply the needed executing speed. Engines often have multiple hundredthousands/millions lines of code (e.g. actual Frostbite-Engine core has more than 3 million lines of code). Game developing companys usually hire software developers specialized in C/C++ and also with high math skills to extend their game engines.
Other C/C++ jobs in todays world would be driver devolopment for OSs or in general, really special stuff like coding drones, PLC programming and many more... When it comes to desktop programming for e.g. Windows, then companies would hire dotNet programmers. For Unix based systems probably Java programmers.
If you want to earn money, good money, with programming then you should focus, besides Java and dotNet, on COBOL. This language was used once to develop huge banking software... money transfers and stuff like that. Complex software and since Java and dotNet become really famous, COBOL programmers are dying out. People being able to support such banking programms are very rare and getting paid really good for their jobs. At least here in germany. They have a huge responsibility for their doing. Also it`s a very stable job, because Bank managers don`t tend to replace this software coded in another language. Never stop a running system.
To come back to your initial question, the game development, you should check out Cry Engine (http://www.cryengine.com/community/downloads.php). It's free to use for non-commercial products and there are so many tutorials out in the WWW on how to create a game. 
Good luck
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atom0s
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Anthropoid wrote: | Ah thanks Atom.
Thing is, not that many jobs for "C++ programmer" are there?
Java programmer must be more jobs, no?
Plus, [ url= http: // fivedots.coe.psu.ac.th/ ~ad/ jg/ ch00/ index. html Dr. Andrews disagrees with you about Java not being suitable for game programming |
There are things that you have to take into consideration when you want to make a game, and in some cases, sacrifices are made because of those choices made.
1. What is your target audience?
2. What is your target platform?
3. What kind of game are you making? (Single player, multiplayer, massive multiplayer.)
4. What technologies does your game require?
1. Audience
From here, you need to assume what kind of graphics your game needs, what kind of sound effects, and so on based on the age group. Childish games for lower age groups just need colors and such to get peoples attention. Soft textures, nothing major or high-res. In most cases over-filtering with various shaders and effects make up for the artwork to make the game more interesting to the lower age group.
2. Platform
Here is a big decider. Being cross-platform is a big deal for some companies / games. This can be a deal breaker on what language(s) you land up using as well as what technologies are accessible based on the language and platform you are developing for. Java does have the benefit of being cross-platform to basically any OS. However that does come with a cost. Java is not that fast of a language because of how it works, not to mention the poor maintaining of the languages core as a whole.
Java has seen tons of updates and such, but never really much to upgrade its existing core. Instead, most of what gets done to Java is just updates, patches, fixes, etc. which are all just tossed on top of the current base. This leads to the core being very bloated, slow, and not that feasible for larger scale projects that really require performance.
3. Game Kind (Single / Multiplayer)
This is another huge factor that weighs in. Single player games do not require nearly anywhere as much resources as a multiplayer game does. Not just storage space and memory, but graphics processing, calculation computing, etc. It all effects the game performance as a whole.
Most multiplayer games written in Java that are any bit major, for example Minecraft, have really shown the limitations of the language. Anything large scale in Minecraft can easily be seen with slow downs, fps drops, stuttering, pixel tearing, etc. This goes for all massive online games written in Java.
4. Technologies
Not every library for things like networking, sound, graphics, particle effects, physics etc are portable to other languages or usable in them. A lot of which are typically coded in C/C++ when it comes to a game engine. So when you have to weigh in what your game will require in the long run, the languages you have to choose from tend to get chosen for you based on what you plan to use.
Speed wise you can take a look at the benchmark game test site here:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u32/java.php
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/java.html
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u32q/java.php
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/java.php
These are all the benchmarks for Java specifically. By default it compares to C (GCC). Which you can see in nearly every test, Java is more then 2 times slower then C.
Either way in the end it is up to you on what you want to use. No one is forcing you to use Java or any other language, that is your choice. Use what you are comfortable with and what suits your needs. Just be sure to weigh the options and really look into things before you decide. Don't just choose because it is something someone else said to do, or a teacher advised you to use etc. Make the choice yourself based on what you are comfortable with.
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Anthropoid
How do I cheat?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate your sincere and substantive replies
I've been in social sciences academia for 20 years, but have found my career brought to a premature end by political and discriminatory factors that are so pervasive in American academia and American culture in general, that there is really little point in grumbling about it. I have a small amount of wealth built up, my wife makes good money, and I have wanted to make the "Best Civilization Game Ever" since I first played Civ 1 way back in the 1990s. I figure now is the time to follow this path.
So I'm considering trying to "kill to birds with one stone:" pursue education and training (which I'm increasingly inclined to do auto-didactically as the plethora of certification programs and online programs is quite bewildering). I already have a Ph.D. in anthropology so I don't really need a degree per se and I am reasonably competent with self-teaching. I also have reasonable math skills (I taught introductory statistics for several years).
The other bird to kill is to get a new job. Yeah, the wife makes good money, but being an unemployed former professor sitting at home trying my hand at game modding (and playing lots of Skyrim) is bound to get boring eventually.
So . . . doing something that simulatenously builds towards: (a) making my dream game; and (b) getting some cash flow from some source such as employment is what I'm looking into at present. Apart from some HTML and CSS (and just a peek into PHP) I don't have much technical background.
@zm0d: COBOL: wow, that almost seems insane , but yeah I had a buddy here in Atlanta who was either COBOL or FORTRAN programmer. This was like 20 years ago though. What he told me pretty much reflected exactly what you are saying: that the old legacy code is still there and that even though they try to work around it, they are hesitant or otherwise unable to simply replace it with more modern database software?
I think my Cobol/Fortran programmer buddy worked for Federated Systems which at that time served Visa and maybe some of the other credit cards. Guy was your textbook basement dweller geek, but he was a good dude, and he seemed pretty happy with his job.
ADDIT: and yet another verification of what you are telling me
http : //simplicity. laserfiche. com /content/looking-job-hows-your-cobol
| Quote: |
For all you Millennials out there who probably aren’t familiar with this particular acronym, COBOL is a computer language designed in 1959 (based on work by Grace Hopper). Unlike its primary competitor at the time, FORTRAN, COBOL was intended for business use, rather than scientific use. Hence its name: Common Business Oriented Language. And in the heyday of computer commerce and administration in the 1960s, billions of lines of it were written. (One could argue this is because it took so many lines of COBOL to do anything.)
As we all know, hardware may come and hardware may go, but software is forever. Despite all the talk about reengineering business processes, it takes a long time and a lot of money to rewrite a program, especially one that works. Major federal agencies such as the Internal Revenue Service and the Social Security Administration are based on COBOL. The SSA has 60 million lines of COBOL in production as of 2013, and found that the benefits of replacing COBOL would not outweigh the risks. Remember the issues with software in the Veterans Administration? What do you think would happen if the tax system or Social Security went down?
COBOL vendor Micro Focus claims:
COBOL supports 90 percent of Fortune 500 business systems every day
70 percent of all critical business logic and data is written in COBOL
COBOL powers 85 percent of all daily business transactions processed
$2 trillion worth of mainframe applications in corporations are written in COBOL
1.5 million new lines of COBOL code are written every day
5 billion lines of new COBOL code are developed every year
The total investment in COBOL technologies, staff and hardware is estimated at $5 trillion
An estimated 2 million people are currently working in COBOL |
DAMN! That is pretty impressive evidence that COBOL is alive and well and may well be quite a good career prospect! Hmmmm . . .
As far as my game dream goes here is what I'd consider to be the main "requirements" and design plans:
1. Audience: anyone who plays any strategy game, (myriad titles from Paradox, Matrix, Bethesda, Firaxis, etc.)
2. Graphics: as low end as I can get them to be acceptable. Seriously, the high-end zoomable stuff is far beyond what I expect I would be able to accomplish alone and I figure if the game is popular, a follow-on or expansion can bring those sorts of elements into the game. Minecraft has some of the most crude graphics ever, didn't stop MS from paying a couple billion to own it. Graphics IMO are secondary to good game design. Good game design involves getting into players heads, leading them through experiences, which usually will involve analysis of some kind (whether that be split-second life-or-death analysis or more slow and careful sifting of information), decision, and action, followed by consequence and retroduction (next turn). Sid Meier's turn-based games, but the Civ 1 through 4 series reflected these elements of good design almost perfectly. Civ3, has graphics that today hurt my eyes, I literally cannot play it because it seems so crude now that I've been spoiled by games like Skyrim; still at the time, the crudeness did not at all hamper my immersion into it.
I'd call Sid my main role model. But I'm also inspired by Marcus Persson, a run of the mill Java programmer who spent his evenings/free time developing his own little game, which 5 or so years down the line, he rolled into a $1.5B payoff!?! Holy crap, even if that sort of thing only happens on in a million times, it suggests to me it is worth a shot, esp. given it would involve doing something I've wanted to do for literally decades, i.e., make a game.
3. Network/Sociality: initial plan is strictly singleplayer. In my experience, multiplayer game suck. I played EVE Online for 2 years and own a Life is Feudal server. The problems of multiplayer gaming are myriad, but the main ones: griefing, exploiting, hacking, sociopathy, cost, time-suckage, feeling of obligation. EVE Online started feeling more like a 'job' than a game toward the middle of my first year after I joined a big Wormhole alliance, you NEVER get that sort of unpleasant experience with singleplayer games. In SP games, if you want to play you play, if you don't you don't; no one is "depending" on you for the alliance op that involves sitting at your keyboard waiting for six hours followed by five minutes of frantic combat and death because of crappy tactical leadership or poor planing. Another problem with MP games is that, because so much focus is necessarily given to balancing the game for PVP and social contexts, such games tend to have very crappy and predictable AI. I would rather have the best AI I can get; I've played a lot of historical strategy board games, and I think that even with fairly nominal code base (this is just my gut instinct) a clever developer can make an AI in a "board game" turn-based combat sort of setting quite challenging IF the developer spends the time to assembly a flow chart of if-then conditional analyses that invoke certain AI actions, and close off others. I don't even see developers like Firaxis or Matrix doing that very often. Rather they just program in four or five "states" of action (attack, defense, wait, or whatever) and then teach the AI what factors to look at and maximize/minimize. I'd love to make a fairly graphically simple, but MASSIVE and immersive historically-based game with turn-based AI that really was unpredictable and challenging even after playing the game many scores or hundreds of hours.
IMO, games are best when played either realtime person-to-peron, or person sitting in front of a computer versus an AI. Certainly online MP games can be good, and I had some epic experiences in EVE Online, but games that were purpose built to serve that role seem to suffer a number of flaws that make their widespread appeal limited. Also I don't see MS offering CCP 2 billion bucks to buy the nightmare that must be "Keeping EVE Online running and profitable." If I wanted to tend a shop I'd become a WalMart manager. I want to make an entertainment product, polish it, polish it, support it through a beta phase to polish it still more, get famous, make lots of money, the end, or rather, on to the next project. If the game I make offers a good basis for an MP version, great I'd be open to that, but I really have no interest in managing a MMORPG business, which is what any profitable MP game must inevitably involve.
4. Game design: massive map. Each game cell should be no more than 25 miles across and each cell will probably need to have several hundred perhaps a thousand or more variables associated with it. If we consider that Earth is 25,000 miles in circumference, and that the habitable regions are perhaps 15,000 miles from north to south: 25,000 / 25 = 1000 cells east-west, 15,000 / 25 = 600 cells north-south is a game map with 600,000 cells/tiles/hexes in it. If each cell has several hundred perhaps a thousand or more variables associated with it (most or all of which are variable depending on game events) . . . well, I know for sure that if you tried to create a map in Civilization that was even 1/4 that size it would choke.
Minecraft worlds are the only game worlds I'm aware of that are anywhere near that size, so that is perhaps partly why I leaned toward Java.
Think of Civ even the most advanced incarnation like Civ 5: no physics to speak of, no NPCs or characterization to worry about, Its basically a giant database, including false 3d graphics and animations of hundreds of different objects (units, buildings, terrain, etc.) in which stuff interacts with the players actions and the other items in the database . . . and so the story unfolds.
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zm0d
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Sounds interesting. You might check out the game Banished, too. It's an RTS game created by one man (like Notch) and was in Steam Topseller charts for a longer time (so I'd guess that he made multiple million dollars). He also sold the game directly on his website. The games graphics are also pretty nice. Not the best but beautiful enough, especially for a one-man-project.
You might gather some background information of this game (which Game Engine the developer used, time need/ed for developing and so on). So you might get a rough overview of what you need to establish your role in this 1 man show.
| Quote: | | initial plan is strictly singleplayer. In my experience, multiplayer game suck |
What about a co-op mode? Doesn't require a real server and can get lots of fun, especially on smaller LANs.
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Anthropoid
How do I cheat?
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks I will definitely check out Banished! Always good to have more "research subjects" 
Coop mode I think is a definite yes, however, I've played few games that did it. Civ I think did/does have a coop mode and on higher difficulties it is something worth doing I guess. The other interactive mode that I think is well-suited for turn-based strategy is "Play By Email" but that seems to be a dying ritual and devoting the effort to make that a part of it just might not be worth the effort in terms of increased sales and popularity.
One game that I wish had coop mode: Skyrim.
Given Java is known for being so cross-platform and network-friendly, I'd think coop mode wouldn't be terribly difficult for a game developed in it.
Another one-man show that has proven to be a real success is Distant Worlds. I think that dude has worked his ass off for about 6 or 7 years, but he must be rolling in it by now. The remarkable thing about him is, if I understand it, he is the main reason why Matrix Games (a publisher which has always been a bit "backward" when it comes to volume-oriented pricing and sensibly expansive marketing and advertising and once had a "No Steam NEVER!" sort of policy) has now started listing games on Steam.
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zm0d
Master Cheater
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Anthropoid wrote: | | One game that I wish had coop mode: Skyrim. |
True. That would be awesome...
| Anthropoid wrote: | | "No Steam NEVER!" sort of policy) has now started listing games on Steam |
Steam is a real charm for me. All your games bind to an account, easy to manage and once installed, you're able to backup'em. Being able to join a friends game is also great. Not to forget the big Steam Sales... all in all a very finished tool. Not like uPlay or Origin (with its beautiful ToS). To not provide a/your game via Steam is naive, IMO.
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Freiza
Grandmaster Cheater
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Do not listen to these two guys. They are super pro. C++ is hard, atleast for me it is.
If you are relatively new to programming I would rather say you should stick to java or python.
Btw, For 3d game programming in java use JMonkeyEngine
http://jmonkeyengine.org/
And for 2d game programming I will suggest you have a look at
slick2d, box2d and timing framework.
If you wish to make some good games have a look at Shiva3d and leadwerks.
And I think if you can make AAA games then you will also find a way to circumvent the caveats in java too.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Python is not at all a good recommendation for serious game programming. It is notorious for being slow. It is not at all meant to do things like full-end game programming. Regardless if it can or not, you shouldn't.
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Freiza
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:40 am Post subject: |
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I think cython + numpy +scipy makes it fast enough.
And for game programming. I think for newbies like me it is more important to finish something. If I choose C++ and use some low level gaming library, I won't be able to finish a simple game.
I already mentioned you are an exception. You can code entire AAA game in assembly language (even faster than C++). But I won't suggest anyone using it.
Python is forgiving.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Adding things does not make a language faster, it does the exact opposite, lol. Nothing you can do to python will make it fast enough to run a AAA title today. It's just not fast enough to do everything needed for today's games.
If you can take the time to learn python, you can learn another language, like C/C++. There are frameworks and game engines for a reason. You don't need to start from the ground up right away. There is no harm in using a framework that has things done for you already. There are a ton of game frameworks / engines that are very easy to use in C++ that can get you started fairly quickly in creating a game.
Other languages that have similar are C# (with XNA, although it is no longer officially supported by Microsoft.),
As for me coding a triple A game in ASM lol.. no way that'll ever happen. I do not know ASM that good to make a game in it.
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Freiza
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:28 am Post subject: |
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No,
As embedding assembly language in C or C++ makes C++ fast. using numpy makes python fast. And cython is a variant of python it is fast. But if you care about speed then u may use Rpython (very fast) and is much easier than C and C++.
For example:
In python,
a = 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
b=9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
c= a+b
done, you have added two very big integer. similarly all integer operations are one liner.
Now try to write that code in c++.
You may write a big integer library or you may use BigInteger library in C++ which is not supported now.
For example,
https://mattmccutchen.net/bigint/
created a big integer library in 2008 and still in 2014 (it was not bug free) and now it is not supported.
I am not going against you. I know you have practically insane amount of knowledge. But python is good and is better designed than C++.
You have to learn design patterns to be a better C++ programmer and most design patterns are integrated in python language by default making life much simple. But yes I agree C++ is faster than python
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SteveAndrew
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
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For a game engine, I'd recommend cocos2d-x... You can code in c++, or lua, or javascript and have your game run on Windows + Mac + (I think now linux also) + Android + iOS from the same code base. (Just different compiled binaries for each platform) But that rocks though each platform will have it's own native version of the game I've been playing with it a bit 
http://www.cocos2d-x.org/
| Freiza wrote: | No,
[snip]...assembler language..[snip]
For example:
In python,
a = 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
b=9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
c= a+b
done, you have added two very big integer.
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Challenge accepted!
Pffft... big int library? How about a big int small little section of assembler code
lol the numbers themselves are bigger than the amount of code needed to add them together!
Here's an example in x64 ASM. It adds two 1024 bit numbers together correctly! (Also works with any bitsize numbers, you just split the number up 64bits at a time, next time I'll add a string parser)
Your numbers were like around 190 bits...
I double checked my results with this site, and my code gets the same answer
http://www.mobilefish.com/services/big_number_equation/big_number_equation.php#equation_output
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
+
88869999951324833333333399995555555558888884444444444444499999999995555555555558888883
33333333949494358951931491384983958129384935839851093801935810395893589132859138593931843
09158910380193851093845981394819385931849138401935819034810938410935834315131341351351341
35135134351351135134134151513415157573562562
| Code: |
//Add BIG Numbers In 64-bit Assembler EASY ;)
//Steve Andrew
[enable]
alloc(EasyAddition,1024)
alloc(Numbers,10240)
label(NumberA)
label(NumberB)
label(AddThatShit)
label(Done)
registersymbol(EasyAddition)
registersymbol(NumberB)
createthread(EasyAddition)
Numbers:
NumberA:
dq F309852C3B3530C2
dq 665AC30EEDBC1FF8
dq 26B66CCA59B4EA31
dq 640282A929F6D513
dq 8D86B45D69D35696
dq 185C80374B2A8957
dq CC72677847955139
dq 8F98E702175ABEFF
dq 6EB72224CAE0082D
dq 8A8890312C023C84
dq 568ABE7B88F0F120
dq 91D8F328ECDF6120
dq DDBDF6991DF9D3D4
dq 182D6439B8D22CAF
dq A54C594434ED101F
dq 7E8E19C5E995045D
NumberB:
dq FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
dq FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
dq FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
dq FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
dq 9B0FFFFFFFFFFFFF
dq D748AF3A385E9216
dq 54AF49665AF3BF5E
dq B104EA78E65CFA12
dq 1387B5E683525A14
dq 908E2B7CBDD99515
dq AA1CC7680C161008
dq 468DF6BEF700B5A0
dq E6DDCC111BCA7DC5
dq 5961DB50C6D2B886
dq 570F09EAA7EA7648
dq 8E679C2F5E44FF8F
dq 0
EasyAddition:
push rbp
mov rbp,rsp
and rsp,ffffffff0
mov rax,NumberA
mov rdx,NumberB
mov rcx,-1
AddThatShit:
pushfq
cmp qword [rdx+rcx*8+8],0
je Done
popfq
inc rcx
mov r15,[rax+rcx*8]
adc [rdx+rcx*8],r15
jmp AddThatShit
Done:
popfq
jnc @f
adc [rdx+rcx*8+8],0
@@:
mov rsp,rbp
pop rbp
ret
[disable]
dealloc(EasyAddition)
dealloc(Numbers)
unregistersymbol(EasyAddition)
unregistersymbol(NumberB)
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My results may look backwards but they aren't... That's how they would be / are stored in memory
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