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paupav
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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: Vala |
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| Anyone actually thought about learning Vala? It seems that people love it.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at their C# to Vala comparison, it looks like a few things Vala are a bit annoying to deal with. Such as the named constructors vs. overloaded constructors, Vala's event handling, the Object requirement on interface base inheritance and some others.
Overall though it looks like C# and Java combined into one language. Doesn't look too bad, but we'll see how it picks up in the time to come.
Some of the not availables I'd be sad without:
- Linq
- operator overloading
- method / constructor overloading
- extension methods
- variable length argument lists
- partial classes
- static classes
- constructor initializers (Not really absolutely needed but nice to have.)
They didn't go into much detail on how they handle unsafe code / pointers.
They just state it's usable anywhere. Would like to see more info on that behalf since being posted on this forum, people are going to be interested in how well it can handle game hacking things.
One big thing that is nice about this language is that it compiles down to C code instead of a managed hosted language like the CLR does for VB/C#. So it does seem a little bit interesting at the start.
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paupav
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| It is so easy and so "small". You can learn it in 3 days. (If you have experience with C like languages.)
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smaudet
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Vala is an interesting language...from the standpoint of a C programmer.
If you want C programming with Object & Class capabilities, Vala is for you. But beyond that I wouldn't bother. Or just use GObject or something similar.
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paupav
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| smaudet wrote: | Vala is an interesting language...from the standpoint of a C programmer.
If you want C programming with Object & Class capabilities, Vala is for you. But beyond that I wouldn't bother. Or just use GObject or something similar. |
The biggest plus in vala is that you don't have to write headers! And that's why I think its superior to C, I still prefer C++, but I had to learn either C or Vala because GTK+ C++ bindings (gtkmm) are very bad (but you can mix C with gtkmm).
Bad things are: no method overloading and no uppercase letters in names (methods (functions), variable names, class names etc.) - only things that I care about.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| pauw wrote: | | smaudet wrote: | Vala is an interesting language...from the standpoint of a C programmer.
If you want C programming with Object & Class capabilities, Vala is for you. But beyond that I wouldn't bother. Or just use GObject or something similar. |
The biggest plus in vala is that you don't have to write headers! And that's why I think its superior to C, I still prefer C++, but I had to learn either C or Vala because GTK+ C++ bindings (gtkmm) are very bad (but you can mix C with gtkmm).
Bad things are: no method overloading and no uppercase letters in names (methods (functions), variable names, class names etc.) - only things that I care about. |
Don't really see why headers are such a big deal to you. Not to mention you can write an application without writing any headers in C/C++ as well, it will just be a ton of code smashed into 1 .c / .cpp file (or multiple files using externs etc.).
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smaudet
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | pauw wrote: | | smaudet wrote: | Vala is an interesting language...from the standpoint of a C programmer.
If you want C programming with Object & Class capabilities, Vala is for you. But beyond that I wouldn't bother. Or just use GObject or something similar. |
The biggest plus in vala is that you don't have to write headers! And that's why I think its superior to C, I still prefer C++, but I had to learn either C or Vala because GTK+ C++ bindings (gtkmm) are very bad (but you can mix C with gtkmm).
Bad things are: no method overloading and no uppercase letters in names (methods (functions), variable names, class names etc.) - only things that I care about. |
Don't really see why headers are such a big deal to you. |
Headers are painful and mostly a waste of time. You declare something, only to copy it verbatim to another file and define it.
The reason they were introduced was great, but we've since come up with better solutions to the need to provide abstractions for interfacing.
Not to mention the headers in c++ are actually horribly broken at their task - you can't 'import' vs 'include' a file, so you rely on the c pre-processor to fix this. Kinda sucks when a critical 'feature' of your language is so broken you rely on a third-party tool to keep it alive?
C++ is nevertheless, useful, so while it may be primitive, ugly, and generally a dirty hack, you learn to live with the horrid mess if you have to.
| Quote: | | Not to mention you can write an application without writing any headers in C/C++ as well, it will just be a ton of code smashed into 1 .c / .cpp file (or multiple files using externs etc.). |
And you can also write your application entirely in assembly, no one does either thing because that would be ridiculous, painful, and slow (unless your application is tiny or if you are a masochist)
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atom0s
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Headers serve an array of purposes whether or not your personal opinion is against them. I fail to see how you have to rely on "third-party tools" to more or less 'keep it alive'. I can code a fully featured application in C++, with heaers, and not use a single external library outside of what the Windows SDK comes with itself, for the OS.
I fail to see any argument here on why headers are considered bad other than personal opinions.
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paupav
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| As smaudet said they are waste of time (at least for me). In Vala you can simply declare classes or methods ( functions are called methods in vala ) it in another .vala file and simply use it in another .vala file.
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DDS
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smaudet
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | Headers serve an array of purposes whether or not your personal opinion is against them. I fail to see how you have to rely on "third-party tools" to more or less 'keep it alive'. I can code a fully featured application in C++, with heaers, and not use a single external library outside of what the Windows SDK comes with itself, for the OS.
I fail to see any argument here on why headers are considered bad other than personal opinions. |
Then you weren't reading hard enough.
As I said, they are a waste of time. Any benefit they provide (which is not none) can be provided without their use, faster.
The part about 'third-party tools' is general reflection upon just how bad the state of headers is in C++. If you fail to see that, I suggest you lookup what the CPP is (and no, its not C++).
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atom0s
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| smaudet wrote: | Then you weren't reading hard enough.
As I said, they are a waste of time. |
I read just fine, thanks again for proving this is just a matter of opinion.
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smaudet
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | smaudet wrote: | Then you weren't reading hard enough.
As I said, they are a waste of time. |
I read just fine, thanks again for proving this is just a matter of opinion. |
How is it a 'matter of opinion'? If they waste time, that's not a matter of opinion, its an objective problem.
Unless it is your opinion that it is only my opinion that they are waste of time, which it is not:
1) time must be spent writing headers
2) this time can be avoided by not writing headers
3) no extra time is needed to get the same functionality, without writing headers
4) therefore, they are a waste of time.
And if you could read just fine, you'd have seen that I had repeatedly made this, non-opinionated, argument, several times (and I was not the only one to make it). So, no, as provable fact, you cannot read 'just fine'.
If you need examples to convince you of 2) & 3), on the topic of discussion, take Vala. If that's not good for some reason, take nearly any other modern programming language - there are lots of examples of this.
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paupav
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| smaudet wrote: | | atom0s wrote: | | smaudet wrote: | Then you weren't reading hard enough.
As I said, they are a waste of time. |
I read just fine, thanks again for proving this is just a matter of opinion. |
How is it a 'matter of opinion'? If they waste time, that's not a matter of opinion, its an objective problem.
Unless it is your opinion that it is only my opinion that they are waste of time, which it is not:
1) time must be spent writing headers
2) this time can be avoided by not writing headers
3) no extra time is needed to get the same functionality, without writing headers
4) therefore, they are a waste of time.
And if you could read just fine, you'd have seen that I had repeatedly made this, non-opinionated, argument, several times (and I was not the only one to make it). So, no, as provable fact, you cannot read 'just fine'.
If you need examples to convince you of 2) & 3), on the topic of discussion, take Vala. If that's not good for some reason, take nearly any other modern programming language - there are lots of examples of this. |
Maybe he enjoys to write headers, maybe he defines variables, functions etc. in headers.
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smaudet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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That could be. I think that would just prove my point.
Still doesn't get rid of the worst part of headers, the need to define everything twice.
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