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br0l0ck
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| gogodr wrote: | | xXL3G10N~4~LYFEXx wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | [SPW]Killamoocow wrote: | welcome to smite.
the skill gap between players in that game is so fucking huge it's not even fun most games.
i've literally won games where it was 3v5 from the very start.
i've also got stomped really fucking hard
worse than when I first started playing LoL  |
That is true.. on the starting levels it is a pain to see how useless some people are at simple tactics.
I have been told that after lvl 6 (can no longer go to novice games and you basically need a team). all that unbalance is gone.
elpacco: I dont play LOL. I like smite because I'm tired of the click targeting mechanic. |
because you aren't good at it, most likely.
Smite sucks. |
10 years of doing the same thing. You don't get bored? for real ? |
>implying youve been playing AoS for 10 years |
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:^)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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ymir so fun
vgg
vgh |
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gogodr
I post too much
 Reputation: 125
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | xXL3G10N~4~LYFEXx wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | [SPW]Killamoocow wrote: | welcome to smite.
the skill gap between players in that game is so fucking huge it's not even fun most games.
i've literally won games where it was 3v5 from the very start.
i've also got stomped really fucking hard
worse than when I first started playing LoL |
That is true.. on the starting levels it is a pain to see how useless some people are at simple tactics.
I have been told that after lvl 6 (can no longer go to novice games and you basically need a team). all that unbalance is gone.
elpacco: I dont play LOL. I like smite because I'm tired of the click targeting mechanic. |
because you aren't good at it, most likely.
Smite sucks. |
10 years of doing the same thing. You don't get bored? for real ? |
>implying youve been playing AoS for 10 years |
AoS?
I'm 21 years old, huge fan of the blizzard franchises. Also played a lot of AoE and AoM. Been through over 100 MMORPGs already and 70% were point, click and command based mechanics.
I'm tired of it and really most of the market on the MMORPGs side is. That is why the "new" MMORPG mechanics is not a more acction oriented one. Same mechanics were implemented into tower defense games to create smite. |
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br0l0ck
Cheater
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | xXL3G10N~4~LYFEXx wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | [SPW]Killamoocow wrote: | welcome to smite.
the skill gap between players in that game is so fucking huge it's not even fun most games.
i've literally won games where it was 3v5 from the very start.
i've also got stomped really fucking hard
worse than when I first started playing LoL |
That is true.. on the starting levels it is a pain to see how useless some people are at simple tactics.
I have been told that after lvl 6 (can no longer go to novice games and you basically need a team). all that unbalance is gone.
elpacco: I dont play LOL. I like smite because I'm tired of the click targeting mechanic. |
because you aren't good at it, most likely.
Smite sucks. |
10 years of doing the same thing. You don't get bored? for real ? |
>implying youve been playing AoS for 10 years |
AoS?
I'm 21 years old, huge fan of the blizzard franchises. Also played a lot of AoE and AoM. Been through over 100 MMORPGs already and 70% were point, click and command based mechanics.
I'm tired of it and really most of the market on the MMORPGs side is. That is why the "new" MMORPG mechanics is not a more acction oriented one. Same mechanics were implemented into tower defense games to create smite. |
Smite isn't an MMO, everything you mention about MMOs is worthless, now talk about RTS and AoS style games which AoS came out 10 years ago, and since then Dota league and among other games of the sort have added skill shots, which Smite is composed of, you still auto attack though, and because of the unbalanced velocity of which your character moves when strafing in smite makes them nearly impossible to dodge consecutively, because if you could, no one would ever get hit by them.
MMOs will never be action games, they will always be hot key based, if they were not they'd cease to be MMOs and people would title them something new (most likely action MMO) just like the FPSMMO genre now exists. and RTS games will always have to be hot key based as well, because of micro and macro managing, itd be incompatible to do anything else.
smite isn't a tower defense game, learn what you're even talking about before you do so.
all games will have some fashion of hot keys and smite just does it differently, just because you have to attack manually just gives you the fake sense of accomplishment, when playing a traditional moba/AoS style game will give you a REAL one because you know the balances and when you actually do something SKILLFUL, which wont exist in smite, thats why the meta and skill ceiling of games is important, to divide those that just joined and those that have spent time and research learning it. the skill ceiling in smite is pitifully low, it will never catch on to become competitive like LoL and Dota has |
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Sui
Expert Cheater
 Reputation: 7
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | xXL3G10N~4~LYFEXx wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | [SPW]Killamoocow wrote: | welcome to smite.
the skill gap between players in that game is so fucking huge it's not even fun most games.
i've literally won games where it was 3v5 from the very start.
i've also got stomped really fucking hard
worse than when I first started playing LoL |
That is true.. on the starting levels it is a pain to see how useless some people are at simple tactics.
I have been told that after lvl 6 (can no longer go to novice games and you basically need a team). all that unbalance is gone.
elpacco: I dont play LOL. I like smite because I'm tired of the click targeting mechanic. |
because you aren't good at it, most likely.
Smite sucks. |
10 years of doing the same thing. You don't get bored? for real ? |
>implying youve been playing AoS for 10 years |
AoS?
I'm 21 years old, huge fan of the blizzard franchises. Also played a lot of AoE and AoM. Been through over 100 MMORPGs already and 70% were point, click and command based mechanics.
I'm tired of it and really most of the market on the MMORPGs side is. That is why the "new" MMORPG mechanics is not a more acction oriented one. Same mechanics were implemented into tower defense games to create smite. |
Smite isn't an MMO, everything you mention about MMOs is worthless, now talk about RTS and AoS style games which AoS came out 10 years ago, and since then Dota league and among other games of the sort have added skill shots, which Smite is composed of, you still auto attack though, and because of the unbalanced velocity of which your character moves when strafing in smite makes them nearly impossible to dodge consecutively, because if you could, no one would ever get hit by them.
MMOs will never be action games, they will always be hot key based, if they were not they'd cease to be MMOs and people would title them something new (most likely action MMO) just like the FPSMMO genre now exists. and RTS games will always have to be hot key based as well, because of micro and macro managing, itd be incompatible to do anything else.
smite isn't a tower defense game, learn what you're even talking about before you do so.
all games will have some fashion of hot keys and smite just does it differently, just because you have to attack manually just gives you the fake sense of accomplishment, when playing a traditional moba/AoS style game will give you a REAL one because you know the balances and when you actually do something SKILLFUL, which wont exist in smite, thats why the meta and skill ceiling of games is important, to divide those that just joined and those that have spent time and research learning it. the skill ceiling in smite is pitifully low, it will never catch on to become competitive like LoL and Dota has |
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
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br0l0ck
Cheater
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| lold fucking hard sui |
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gogodr
I post too much
Reputation: 125
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2041
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | xXL3G10N~4~LYFEXx wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | [SPW]Killamoocow wrote: | welcome to smite.
the skill gap between players in that game is so fucking huge it's not even fun most games.
i've literally won games where it was 3v5 from the very start.
i've also got stomped really fucking hard
worse than when I first started playing LoL |
That is true.. on the starting levels it is a pain to see how useless some people are at simple tactics.
I have been told that after lvl 6 (can no longer go to novice games and you basically need a team). all that unbalance is gone.
elpacco: I dont play LOL. I like smite because I'm tired of the click targeting mechanic. |
because you aren't good at it, most likely.
Smite sucks. |
10 years of doing the same thing. You don't get bored? for real ? |
>implying youve been playing AoS for 10 years |
AoS?
I'm 21 years old, huge fan of the blizzard franchises. Also played a lot of AoE and AoM. Been through over 100 MMORPGs already and 70% were point, click and command based mechanics.
I'm tired of it and really most of the market on the MMORPGs side is. That is why the "new" MMORPG mechanics is not a more acction oriented one. Same mechanics were implemented into tower defense games to create smite. |
Smite isn't an MMO, everything you mention about MMOs is worthless, now talk about RTS and AoS style games which AoS came out 10 years ago, and since then Dota league and among other games of the sort have added skill shots, which Smite is composed of, you still auto attack though, and because of the unbalanced velocity of which your character moves when strafing in smite makes them nearly impossible to dodge consecutively, because if you could, no one would ever get hit by them.
MMOs will never be action games, they will always be hot key based, if they were not they'd cease to be MMOs and people would title them something new (most likely action MMO) just like the FPSMMO genre now exists. and RTS games will always have to be hot key based as well, because of micro and macro managing, itd be incompatible to do anything else.
smite isn't a tower defense game, learn what you're even talking about before you do so.
all games will have some fashion of hot keys and smite just does it differently, just because you have to attack manually just gives you the fake sense of accomplishment, when playing a traditional moba/AoS style game will give you a REAL one because you know the balances and when you actually do something SKILLFUL, which wont exist in smite, thats why the meta and skill ceiling of games is important, to divide those that just joined and those that have spent time and research learning it. the skill ceiling in smite is pitifully low, it will never catch on to become competitive like LoL and Dota has |
Its not about MMOs, RTSs, FPSs, or any other game subcategory.
Those subcategories are not for game mechanics which was what I was pointing out.
What I was talking about was the point, click and command mechanics often seen in strategy games and MMORPGs.
On the other side, you say smite is not a tower defense. Care to explain how it is not a tower defense game ?
What is the objective of the game? I though it was breaking the opponent's towers... I don't know.. I have been doing that. Maybe I'm wrong.
also, wanna talk about skill in games and how it adds to the gameplay? That haves nothing to do with the discussion but if you want to talk about that then yes we can.
It is true that most of the games have some sort of auto-something in order to make the game mechanics easier for the customers. Why? because customers want a playable game and depends on the market and the competitive factor in that market. That things decide whether it the game should have computer assisted controls or not.
Last edited by gogodr on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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br0l0ck
Cheater
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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You do defend towers but they are not known as tower defense because that genre already exists, google tower defense and look at the images and see what you get.
AoS/Battle Arena games and Tower Defense games originated in RTS mechanics, and such have to be named differently so as not to be confused. If im looking for a custom WC3 games Tower Defense is VERY different from a AoS/Battle Arena style game |
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gogodr
I post too much
Reputation: 125
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2041
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | You do defend towers but they are not known as tower defense because that genre already exists, google tower defense and look at the images and see what you get.
AoS/Battle Arena games and Tower Defense games originated in RTS mechanics, and such have to be named differently so as not to be confused. If im looking for a custom WC3 games Tower Defense is VERY different from a AoS/Battle Arena style game |
the tower defense I'm talking about is not the you build towers to defend your base and it is pretty obvious what I was referring to. I'm talking about the you have to defend your towers.
placing this kind of games under the battle arena category is not correct.
because it doesn't describe the goal of the game at all.
an example of a game that fits in that category would be archeblade. and if you look at the gameplay footage it is nothing like dota, smite, lol or hon. |
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br0l0ck
Cheater
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | You do defend towers but they are not known as tower defense because that genre already exists, google tower defense and look at the images and see what you get.
AoS/Battle Arena games and Tower Defense games originated in RTS mechanics, and such have to be named differently so as not to be confused. If im looking for a custom WC3 games Tower Defense is VERY different from a AoS/Battle Arena style game |
the tower defense I'm talking about is not the you build towers to defend your base and it is pretty obvious what I was referring to. I'm talking about the you have to defend your towers.
placing this kind of games under the battle arena category is not correct.
because it doesn't describe the goal of the game at all. |
sorry I didnt invent the terms, its just what they are known as to EVERYONE, as I said if I looked for custom map multiplayer games in an RTS tower defense would be building towers to kill spawning waves from a top down view and Aos/battle arena games would be picking a hero to defeat the enemy towers and base with a team.
I am talking about this just to show how little you know about the games and their mechanics, because you simply dont know what games are called, I cant expect you to understand meta game and why Smite will not work. |
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gogodr
I post too much
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2041
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Brolock wrote: | | gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | You do defend towers but they are not known as tower defense because that genre already exists, google tower defense and look at the images and see what you get.
AoS/Battle Arena games and Tower Defense games originated in RTS mechanics, and such have to be named differently so as not to be confused. If im looking for a custom WC3 games Tower Defense is VERY different from a AoS/Battle Arena style game |
the tower defense I'm talking about is not the you build towers to defend your base and it is pretty obvious what I was referring to. I'm talking about the you have to defend your towers.
placing this kind of games under the battle arena category is not correct.
because it doesn't describe the goal of the game at all. |
sorry I didnt invent the terms, its just what they are known as to EVERYONE, as I said if I looked for custom map multiplayer games in an RTS tower defense would be building towers to kill spawning waves from a top down view and Aos/battle arena games would be picking a hero to defeat the enemy towers and base with a team.
I am talking about this just to show how little you know about the games and their mechanics, because you simply dont know what games are called, I cant expect you to understand meta game and why Smite will not work. |
That's another common misconception, games sub categories are not made just to classify games like archives and files. They are meant to classify your game in order to look into the correspondent market.
You are free to believe whatever you want, my stand point of games is not one of the consumer but one of a developer. The classification I use here is the same I use with my team and it is pretty much the universal rule of "if you want to classify something, the classifications titles should try to explain the game and not just be an arbitrary classification".
I have been working on the games industry for years and experience is where I'm standing. There is no "Sorry I didn't invent the terms, it is known to everyone" int he real world. Just because you can read it in Wikipedia it doesn't mean it is known an accepted for everyone. in fact, for games special classifications or other technicisms, it is known by only a very little group of people and if it fails at describing what it is meant to then it should be changed ( and it has been done many times in the past with many game classifications in order for they to have better descriptions ). |
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br0l0ck
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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sorry but youre completely wrong, no one who knows anything about video games would call smite a tower defense, like I said I did not invent the terms which means they are used by everyone else, the reason the wikipedia article exists is because it was written by people and IS accepted by everyone, again my example is that if I wanted to play one of these games, and I loaded up wc3 when it was popular and went into a custom game map called 'tower defense' I would NOT get an AoS or battle arena.
Smite calls itself a MOBA; an online battle arena, you cant go calling it a tower defense when the developers of the game have defined the catagory they want it in and they want it to be known by in.
so you and your team are completely wrong and if you developed a battle arena game and called it a tower defense everyone would laugh at you and call you a VERY inexperienced developer. sorry bro but Im sure ive been playing this style of game longer than you have, I am the reason it has these names, because Ive supported it, but the name specifically given was not invented by me.
The first of these games were based on a custom map for starcraft called aeon of strife (AoS) and the community spawned other maps of similarity calling them battle arenas, when LoL was being released they called their game an multiplayer online battle arena: MOBA because it stuck and thats why people still call them this till this day, not because its accurate but because they already have an established name.
if you want an accurate name ill call them "ASSFAGGOTS: Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides"
but that wont catch on |
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gogodr
I post too much
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Anybody can write into wikipedia, Only articles with a trustable source (There are many) should be considered though. There is also a bunch of crap in wikipedia even with today's filters.
I'm pretty sure we are just 1 or 2 more generations until that battle arena classification is changed for a more specific and descriptive one.
Smite doesnt call himself a MOBA and no studio would make such a claim. It would be really stupid to release a game and classify it on a "popular" but inaccurate classification. That will mean that their market is just the "MOBA" players which would be stupid. A games company needs to focus on a bigger market and try to expand it if it wants to be successful. That is why Hi-Rez studio didn't classify Smite as a moba but it described the game in terms that their target market could understand.
from the Hi-Rez Smite FAQ
| Quote: | What is SMITE?
SMITE is an online battleground between mythical gods. Smite is similar to a traditional Dota gameplay with a few changes including a third person perspective and WASD movement. Players choose from a selection of gods, join session based 5 versus 5 arena combat, and use custom powers and team tactics against other players and minions. |
--------
actually you have a pretty good idea going there.
Fortress Assault could be a better classification. |
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br0l0ck
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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What is SMITE?
SMITE is an online battleground
battleground is the SAME thing as an arena, and it is indeed a multiplayer game.
League of legends THE most popular and most played MOBA, invented or at least claimed the term THEMSELVES. but because of this other companies do not directly call themselves MOBAs because the entire term was made to directly refer to LoL. this is why you will see games like smite call themself online battleground or action RTS, which is the same thing just not as catchy.
its currently THE MOST descriptive title we have, because the only other things that people use to describe these things are 'multiplayer strategy game' which is even less descriptive than MOBA
MOBA was invented by a company that now defines the genre, whether or not its your favorite of that genre doesn't matter, because league is the biggest and most played MOBA, its been #1 played on xfire 100 days straight and its competitive scene is huge
yeah anyone can write into wikipedia, and anyone can write into fucking cef too, but so far ive stated the entire history of the genre and you're just trying to defend a shitty game. maybe if you lived in a place where english was the main language you'd know how to understand it
and no more 'generations' exist, if the game evolves any further then it will be titled an entire new genre, battle arena and DOTA/AoS-like will always be the term used for the games that we are playing now, with the major games of LoL DotA2 and HoN there is no more advancement to be made, we are still using the mechanics of a ten year old RTS games, the only reason Smite is relevant is because of its third person perspective, if it was not in third person it would not be played what so ever. If it adds any more mechanics that are not in traditional ARTS/MOBA/AoS style games then it will be a new genre. |
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1929394839292057839194958
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| gogodr wrote: | | Brolock wrote: | You do defend towers but they are not known as tower defense because that genre already exists, google tower defense and look at the images and see what you get.
AoS/Battle Arena games and Tower Defense games originated in RTS mechanics, and such have to be named differently so as not to be confused. If im looking for a custom WC3 games Tower Defense is VERY different from a AoS/Battle Arena style game |
the tower defense I'm talking about is not the you build towers to defend your base and it is pretty obvious what I was referring to. I'm talking about the you have to defend your towers.
placing this kind of games under the battle arena category is not correct.
because it doesn't describe the goal of the game at all.
an example of a game that fits in that category would be archeblade. and if you look at the gameplay footage it is nothing like dota, smite, lol or hon. |
yeah man
TF2 isn't an FPS game because the goal of the game is actually to cap points
it's a point defender |
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