Cheat Engine

++METHOS · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject:

Earning money is not a prerequisite for infringement. And as previously stated, it is not always so cut and dry:

darkedone02 · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject:

Mrantifun actually replied to this suituation here.

ColonelRVH · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:13 pm Post subject:

Guess this time might be the same then.

I wonder how's darkbyte doing.

Sigan.Q · Cheater Reputation: 0 Joined: 24 Feb 2013 Posts: 35

The whole thing seems a bit off to me. Lawyers don't typically set up DDoS attacks. If a company feels like a case is worth pursuing, they're going to want to protect their image in court. You're not likely to get a DDoS attack as a legal repercussion to an accusation that hasn't yet been tried. Even if you were found guilty for something, the court would set a date by which to have a site taken down, and then you'd have the appropriate amount of time to comply.

Further, a lawyer has to point out specifically what you're being accused of so that you can form a proper defense. They can't say you're guilty of some sort of copyright infringement without specifying in what way you've infringed.

Keep in mind, most lawyers get paid by the hour, and it's in their best interest to make sure documents are impeccably detailed.

I think CE.org has been tricked.

apollo1 · Newbie cheater Reputation: 0 Joined: 30 Oct 2013 Posts: 19

Sounds like one of those bullshit copyright claims on youtube. People who dont even own the content of someones video somehow is able to report that it is their content and youtube doesn't even bother to review it before they take it down. Just an entirely flawed system of review because youtube got so big its doesnt even care about the little guy anymore.

Alauniira · How do I cheat? Reputation: 0 Joined: 28 Feb 2017 Posts: 1

Sadly this issues hold recifense down to update the new tw warhammer trainer for the new version :/

Nibelton · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:15 am Post subject:

Semel · Newbie cheater Reputation: 0 Joined: 26 Jul 2015 Posts: 16

Memory modifications of a game you own do not violate DMCA. It's not specified there at all. It's horseshit.

Alastair412 · Cheater Reputation: 0 Joined: 16 Mar 2015 Posts: 34

A couple of random thoughts:
* Get professional legal advice. Smartasses on a forum don't cut it. Don't count on fair dealing over e-mail
* Per Ken White, a lawyer who blogs at Popehat.com, vagueness in legal threats is the hallmark of thuggery
* The legal theory that CE itself is infringing on their partner's copyrights is very unlikely to stand up in court. However, getting that notion tested in court is expensive; borderline bogus legal threats are based on this principle. This is why you need legal advice.
* The legal theory that using a particular cheat table creates an unauthorized derivative work is probably also very unlikely to stand in court. Nonetheless, the same issue of economic lawfare applies
* As the host of the forum, you could probably claim safe harbor under the DMCA, section 512, meaning DB isn't liable for other users posting cheat tables. This would in turn require a complainant to send specific DMCA takedown notices. Which can be challenged. But to verify this theory, you need legal advice
* Get professional legal advice.

I don't believe for one second that the notion of using a memory browser to modify in-memory values of software executed on one's private PC representing copyright infringement would stand up to scrutiny in courts. However, tables that unlock paid content could be vulnerable for a variety of reasons, beyond just copyright. Cheats affecting multiplayer are equally likely to be open to legal challenge, again not necessarily purely on copyright grounds.

If DB has grounds to assume that theesa, which represents much of the industry, is acting in good faith and not just trying to conduct lawfare, I would propose, as a resolution, that going forward, tighter moderation will seek to remove any tables or trainers that unlock paid content, and propose a simple process by which theesa can raise issues directly with the moderation team if they miss something. I would however stand my ground on the principle that no software provider is entitled to determine what each individual user does with content executed in-memory on their private systems (single player cheats). If that were not an acceptable good faith resolution, I'd lawyer up. But that's just me.

Good luck. And get professional legal advice.

blanketghost · How do I cheat? Reputation: 0 Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 3

Alright, I have this account for a while but mostly lurk. From I am able to gather from the grapevines and heard from unsavoury places of the internet. I think at this moment, there are some possibilities:

1) DDoS and DMCA are separate cases at happened at the same time, some asses had fun and Zenimax (will get to this later) just have the most terrible idea. Ill luck upon us indeed.

2) DMCA is fake, but a remarkably well-done fake that DB fell for it. Sometime people went the length for lulz and giggles like the old 4chan churning out hoaxes for news to eat it up.

3) Worst possible case. DMCA is real for the reason I would advise you guys to grab your tin foil hats, this is going to be a long speculative post:

Seems stuffs has been going on in the underbelly side of gaming. I have heard of cracker teams taking dosh from big AAA companies to delay their releases, but only the leader of the team gets the dosh while the rest gets nothing, differences in ideals, and cracker teams falling out and forming new teams. The scattered crackers and underground mention that AAAs are up to something, but this is just a rumour or maybe just a random post.

While it is weird that according to DB, it was Beth leading the other AAAs. Zenimax has a mean streak of suing smaller companies and letting their subs take the heat. This could be the case. This could mean the worst nightmare of the free cheaters. Maybe AAAs are planning for the 'paid in-game cheats'. While this seemed ridiculous at first, remember the Horse Armour fiasco from Beth/Zenimax? And how from 'nobody is going to buy that' to the current gaming climates turned to DLC fest. Same thing might be happening again, and this time, it is cheat they plan to profit from. They tried to push the 'Paid Mod' once, but that did not worked out, so maybe they are trying it from the other angle.

I do not know if CH also got hit or what. If anybody can get the news from that side, that would be great. Aaand, that's that. Could just be me getting too imaginative. Maybe it is just the goons or someone else doing it for lulz and giggles.

STN · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:35 am Post subject:

Hatschi · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:42 am Post subject:

What happened to the tables outside the forum? The tables you could had access at the main website of CE. Anyway to still download them?

Viloresi · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:50 am Post subject:

Griffihn · Cheater Reputation: 1 Joined: 17 Aug 2013 Posts: 44

Csimbi · Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:03 am Post subject:

You have the right to sue whoever put you under DDOS attack.
You run a legal web site, the attackers are the bad guys.
Easy-peasy.

First off, I don't think a cheat table constitutes derived work in any sense.
Remember that CE - and any similar tools before CE - can't add any content to the games there were not there in the first place(!).
That's what the modding sites and communities are for.
You have to ask: what is CE, really?
A free tool to modify a few values in the memory of your own PC only.
Plus the table that contains these offsets - which is also free.
How is that different from the 'poke xxxx yy' that was posted as plain text before CE came along, since the days of C64?
The only difference is that you get the patches wrapped in the XML file.
What I don't understand is this: It did not really bother anybody for nearly three decades; how come Bethesda is suddenly making these claims?
Mods are there for moddable games. Mods exist even for games that are not officially moddable. Either way, all these mods are in fact derived work, they are also free like the cheat tables yet those somehow just don't bother them.
If that email was indeed from Bethesda (do verify with with their PR and do CC an investigative reporter right away), then I wonder what's going on inside that company... I smell general incompetence.

Moving on...

For the record, I have never accepted any agreement from Bethesda (or any other greedy corporation) that would prevent me from doing any derived work.
I don't think you or any other users did - nor were you required to accept such thing - nor can they require you to do so.
In the EU, these cases are easily dismissed in court because a) these clauses are usually buried in the terms of use in a language people can't understand and b) if we followed these rules, there would be no competition that drives innovation and we'd be still riding carriages like in the middle ages, lol

Move the server to the EU and these US-based greedy hypocrites won't be able to touch you.
Better yet, move it to the east. China blocks tons of Google traffic - I would imagine, indexing, too - so CE would not be the first hit every time someone is trying to find a cheat.