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new jews?
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americanboy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: new jews? Reply with quote

Lel

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greatsage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatsage wrote:
americanboy wrote:
guys, if talix cant andrew aka shrooms at this, then just ignore talix.


imagine being laughed at so much you have to invent imaginary psychologists to make you feel better about it and defend you from the internet

shrooms is an example of a phenomena which occurs so frequently in a society where you teach men that their god is an insane man like them.

forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?p=5753717#5753717

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greatsage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

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Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am far from a servant of God. My sanctification is still a budding thing, and I have a lot more righteousness to pave out before I could be considered anything like that, not that I want to be considered that anyway.

That being said, I do agree with the Quran not having the authority to say what is and isn't true about the Bible. Shrooms is either trolling or needs helps though with his claims of being God and all. Unless he wants to perform some miracles, but his manner of speaking to others is far removed from Christ.
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greatsage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
I am far from a servant of God. My sanctification is still a budding thing, and I have a lot more righteousness to pave out before I could be considered anything like that, not that I want to be considered that anyway.

That being said, I do agree with the Quran not having the authority to say what is and isn't true about the Bible. Shrooms is either trolling or needs helps though with his claims of being God and all. Unless he wants to perform some miracles, but his manner of speaking to others is far removed from Christ.


you wouldn't really know, so your speaking on the matter is just as authoritative as shrooms' ignorance.
it is absurd to say that God would not be capable of confirming the truth. but clearly you think men who are never in agreement can determine what God has sent
as someone unlearned and unread on the Qur'an and bible, you shouldn't speak so mindlessly.

the bible and the qur'an both go against each other in their own narratives, so logically they can not both be true.
however, it is only the bible that contradicts itself in its own narratives, and is contrary to historical fact.

now, the burden of proof is on you to prove the Bible is a better source than the Qur'an -- as Muslims, we have verified the Qur'an (and there are numerous Christian missionaries who will agree and profess that the Qur'an is entirely backing and in line with the Bible), as there is no doubt that the transmission of the Qur'an has been kept, authenticated, free from contradiction and corruption. the same can not be said about the Bible, which was not transmitted properly, and has no authentication of its transmission, or its chain of transmission recorded.

it is absolutely pathetic to speak on what you are willfully ignorant on as though you are an authority. there will never be an authority in ignorance.
our religion is the religion of God. and who is better than God in ordaining religion? and we Muslims are worshipers of Him.

the Qur'an came from Him who is Perfect in knowledge and power,
it is verifiable that the Qur'an came from the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them),
and only through the Qur'an can you fully verify that God sent down revelation prior in the Torah of Moses, the Psalms of David, the Gospel of the Messiah Jesus, and other minor scrolls.

>Unless he wants to perform some miracles
mfw u would accept someone like this as God almighty if he could perform miracles, but cant accept the words of your God who says He is not a man

while rejecting the miracles that hundreds witnessed and documented personally seeing Muhammad ﷺ perform.
u are not consistent with your logic.


furthermore, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, REALLY???
>I am far from a servant of God., not that I want to be considered that anyway.

HOW COULD UR SPIRIT NOT BE SCREAMING TO BE A SERVANT OF GOD ?
HOW COULD EVERY JOINT IN U NOT WANT TO PERFORM FOR THE SAKE OF GOD ?
there is NOTHING BETTER FOR U THAN TO SERVE GOD AND BE A GRATEFUL SERVANT !

by the One who holds my soul in His hand! this is one of the most offensive things i have heard you utter!
how could you not DIE for God to look upon you as His servant??? how could you not LIVE for that???
God does not need you, you need God! is this what happens when you turn from Him to worship the creation that serves only Him? that you should no longer love to love God?
undoubtedly, from this profession, you drink from broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

The Prophet (ﷺ) used to offer night prayers till his feet became swollen. Somebody said, to him,
“Why do you do this when Allah has forgiven you, and those who follow you, your past and future sins?
On that, he (ﷺ) said, "Shouldn't I be a thankful slave of Allah?"



    (Malachai 3:18) Then once more you shall see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him.

    (Psalm 100:2) Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing!

    (Matthew 4:10) “Away from me, Satan!” Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

    [Qu'ran 39:2] Indeed, We have sent down to you the Book, in truth. So serve God, [being] sincere to Him in religion.


    Narrated `Umar: I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying,
    "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."



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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjoy your legalism and pretending to follow Jesus's message while denying the most important part of His life.

In regards to my opinions on "servant of god" i mean that i have no interest in being canonized as a saint by Catholics.

Quote:
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.


Christianity: The form of God is complex, and can not be fully understood, the same way a two dimensional creature can't fully understand a three dimensional object. Even so, we can get an idea as to its nature, and that's how we come to learn that God is Love.

Quote:
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.


Quote:
At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

34Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’b ? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

37If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. 38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”


Quote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life




Muslims: No, the bible is corrupted, the quran is preserved. Therefore, the quran is the only thing that is truly valid, and it says Jesus isn't God and wasn't crucified, so He wasn't. We still believe in Jesus, just not his most important teachings, because those are corrupted, but the teaching not relevant to his claim to divinity are just fine. Even though Jesus told his followers to bless people in the name of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, and even though it became apparent to his followers that the Holy Spirit is the paraclete promised by Christ, instead it's actually Muhammad who is the paraclete! And he came to invalidate Jesus's divinity and crucifixion! Even though Jesus revealed God's complex, three-fold nature, giving humanity a more complete picture of God's nature, that's just too complicated. Instead, it is much easier to just say The Father is the only God, and Jesus was just a prophet, and The Holy Spirit is a lie, and Muhammad is the paraclete.

Oh yeah, don't mind Muhammad leading a life of war and lusting after women and needing his heart "purified from sin" with snow, just accept that he was as perfect as a man sinless from birth and who lived a completely perfect life. Yeah, God made Jesus to be born from a virgin, but the REAL final messenger was some guy in Mecca who would receive the message after living an imperfect life at around age 40.


I hope that some day you will leave the heresy behind. God bless.
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greatsage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
Enjoy your legalism and pretending to follow Jesus's message while denying the most important part of His life.

In regards to my opinions on "servant of god" i mean that i have no interest in being canonized as a saint by Catholics.

    (Ephesian 2:8-10) For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.


Christianity: The form of God is complex, and can not be fully understood, the same way a two dimensional creature can't fully understand a three dimensional object. Even so, we can get an idea as to its nature, and that's how we come to learn that God is Love.

    (Matthew 28:19) All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

    (John 10:31-38)
    At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.
    But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
    “We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
    Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’ ?
    If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
    then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

    If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me.
    But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”

    (John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life



Muslims: No, the bible is corrupted, the quran is preserved. Therefore, the quran is the only thing that is truly valid, and it says Jesus isn't God and wasn't crucified, so He wasn't. We still believe in Jesus, just not his most important teachings, because those are corrupted, but the teaching not relevant to his claim to divinity are just fine. Even though Jesus told his followers to bless people in the name of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, and even though it became apparent to his followers that the Holy Spirit is the paraclete promised by Christ, instead it's actually Muhammad who is the paraclete! And he came to invalidate Jesus's divinity and crucifixion! Even though Jesus revealed God's complex, three-fold nature, giving humanity a more complete picture of God's nature, that's just too complicated. Instead, it is much easier to just say The Father is the only God, and Jesus was just a prophet, and The Holy Spirit is a lie, and Muhammad is the paraclete.

Oh yeah, don't mind Muhammad leading a life of war and lusting after women and needing his heart "purified from sin" with snow, just accept that he was as perfect as a man sinless from birth and who lived a completely perfect life. Yeah, God made Jesus to be born from a virgin, but the REAL final messenger was some guy in Mecca who would receive the message after living an imperfect life at around age 40.


I hope that some day you will leave the heresy behind. God bless.


>Enjoy your legalism and pretending to follow Jesus' message while denying the most important part of His life

this is what is the most important commandment according to Jesus:
    (Matthew 22:46-40)
    “Teacher, which is the important commandment in the Law?”
    Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
    This is the first and greatest commandment.
    And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
    All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


i am very intimately aware with Jesus' life and his message. that is why i strive to embody it. i am much more familiar with Jesus and his message than you.

Jesus says, too -- of what God sent him to do -- that he completed it. and he says this before you say he was ever on a cross.
so Jesus' work God sent him to do was finished before you say "his most important work" was done!

    (John 17:3-4)
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
    I have glorified You on earth by finishing the work You gave Me to do.


here, again, Jesus separates himself from God -- otherwise there would be no "and". if you know both, you know they are separate -- and that there is only one true God, and that Jesus was sent by God.
otherwise, you do not know either.

this is why, in your own passage quoted -- Jesus clarifies that his will is not God's will, they are separate ; Jesus even acts in ways that God did not command, and that was not God's will or works:
>If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me.






>God can not be fully understood. Even so, we can get an idea as to its nature,
how can you get this idea? by the interpretations of men who had no authority come to them from God?
in Islam, we do not say that God can be fully understood. we know God only through the way He reveals Himself to us, teaching through His Prophets.
the best way to know God is through the Qur'an, which makes known His blessed names, of which are 99. there is no guidance left out from it, and no corruption or change has touched it.
God cannot be described and understood completely by any, or all, of these names-- but they help Muslims to think about and appreciate God's unknowable nature, and to strengthen our relationship with Him (although He can not be comprehended).

>and that's how we come to learn that God is Love.
one of the names of God, which He has made known to us, is al-Wadud, "The Most/All Loving";
"The One Who is the source of all love and affection. His Love is intense, constant and lasting. Al-Wadud is the One Who is deserving of all love and affection. Al-Wadud loves the believers, and the believers love Him more than anything"






>For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
i have no idea the reason you would quote this. it was not taught by Jesus.
but if you had bothered to understand Islam, you would know that we do not believe that we are saved by ourselves or through our own works. why do you insist on affirming your lack of knowledge by speaking through ignorance?
the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ said,
“No good works of yours can ever secure heaven for you, nor can they save you from hell – not even me, without the grace of God.”

>We still believe in Jesus, just not his most important teachings, because those are corrupted, but the teaching not relevant to his claim to divinity are just fine.
none of this is what islam teaches. what a joke to act like this.




>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
the word "begotten" has been thrown out of the bible as an interpolation. that is why it was removed from the revised standard version, backed by 32 scholars of the highest eminence, who said this word "begotten" was never in the original manuscripts, but inserted later.
there is no such phenomenon recorded to have happened to the Qur'an -- it has not been edited, but God has promised to preserve it and fulfilled this promise Himself.






>all authority has been given to me
clearly then, authority is with God, who gave it -- and Jesus was, without God, without authority.



>Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’b ? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came
first of all, Justin, you have not read or carried the law, living by it -- so it is no surprise that you do not understand it or what Jesus is saying here -- which he is saying against the Jews, in disagreement with the statement "you are making yourself a God". he is clearly saying that God uses this phrase for those whom He delivers His word to, so he is not committing blasphemy.

if you were understanding of the Law, you would understand that this is used for whatever high judges are appointed, and whomever is spoken to by God. in this way, jews understand their rabbis who teach them to be "gods", and even Moses is called by such. in judaism, this concept is "sheliah"; and it is NOT a claim to divinity.
furthermore, if you understood the Gospel, Jesus is constantly saying the Jews are mistaken in their understanding of him. so your claim requires Jesus to be wrong, and the Jews who, Jesus said, did not understand his nature -- to be your confirmation

    (John 8:26-27,42-46,55)
    Jesus said, “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”
    The Jews didn't understand that he was talking to them about the Father.
    “... I have not come on my own; God sent me.
    Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
    You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
    If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you



>Even though Jesus revealed God's complex, three-fold nature, giving humanity a more complete picture of God's nature, that's just too complicated
Encyclopedia Britannica wrote:
The [Trinity] doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.
Initially, both the requirements of monotheism inherited from the Hebrew Scriptures and the implications of the need to interpret the biblical teaching to Greco-Roman religions seemed to demand that the divine in Christ as the Word, or Logos, be interpreted as subordinate to the Supreme Being. An alternative solution was to interpret Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three modes of the self-disclosure of the one God but not as distinct within the being of God itself. The first tendency recognized the distinctness among the three, but at the cost of their equality and hence of their unity (subordinationism). The second came to terms with their unity, but at the cost of their distinctness as “persons” (modalism).
The high point of these conflicts was the so-called Arian controversy in the early 4th century. In his interpretation of the idea of God, Arius sought to maintain a formal understanding of the oneness of God. In defense of that oneness, he was obliged to dispute the sameness of essence of the Son and the Holy Spirit with God the Father.
It was not until later in the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons.

"The simplest explanation is the best explanation";
i highlight below several objections to this:
namely that you are then saying God lied about His nature in the Torah, or hid it from them while promising salvation (which would be a lie by your accusation that Trinity is necessary for salvation -- and that there is no salvation in following the Torah, what you say can not be followed but is a curse);
and by saying God is not a man, nor the son of man, and by saying there is no salvation in the son of man.

besides these objections (which you never addressed), you are clearly wrong by saying this was revealed by Jesus -- nowhere did he do such a thing, and the trinity came after hundreds of years. i guess the trinity failed for 1300 years before Jesus to be demonstrated or understood by God, and then continued to fail for about 400 more years until it was invented and everyone who disagreed with it was slaughtered by the church.
so your god of trinity failed continually (even with and after Jesus) to demonstrate his true nature, and to provide what was necessary for salvation

this is a clear error on your behalf that illustrates you don't understand the trinity, its inspiration, or its history. yet, despite your confusion, you accept it as God and God as its author, also while believing God does not author confusion (which is a lie from paul which he contradicts himself on)



> that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.
this is yet another implicit statement (which is what every claim you make rests on -- it is never an explicit statement that can be clearly understood as a claim to divinity. it can only ever be understood as such by interpretation upon a vague verse)

you will not be able to give an explicit statement of claiming to be God, and you never have (only implicit statements with dubious claims).

furthermore, it clearly can not be used to claim that Jesus is god.

    (John 14:19-20) In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.


if Jesus died, then we do not hold salvation and can not live. but Jesus lived, and God's salvation is open to all of us. Jesus' prayers for salvation were answered, and he had faith in God.
Jesus is espousing a connection in mission and purpose, otherwise Jesus is claiming we are god too -- if saying God is in him makes him God, then saying God is in us makes us God.

clearly, then, this is another verse you are desperately misinterpreting, by removing it from context and sieving it through doctrine of men who came much later than Jesus.
it can not and does not fit to be a claim to divinity.


thank you again for directly avoiding addressing my prior points, but i won't shy away from fairness and truth as you do.


    (John 16:7-10,13)
    But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; But if I go, I will send him to you.
    And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
    in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me;
    However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

    (John 15:26) The Helper will come – the Spirit, who reveals the truth about God, and who comes from the Father.
    (John 14:16) I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever.

    (Ezekiel 18:32) For I take no pleasure in anyone’s death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!


Muhammad ﷺ was sent by God, and proved the world to be wrong on sin, righteousness, and judgment -- he proved that you Christians do not believe in Jesus by making him a god -- that you no longer see him , as he went to God, alive.
God does not take pleasure in anyone's death, and this is another thing you were proved wrong about through Islam.

it is undoubted that the billions of Muslims embody the teachings of Islam and Muhammad ﷺ -- every way of our life is influenced by him, from the way we eat and drink, to the way we pray and greet, to the way we seek and treat, even the way we practice hygiene and go to the bathroom; Islam is in our hearts and strengthened in God.
the revelations given by God to Muhammad ﷺ are with us forever, are preserved forever, and we know them today the way they were always known, and the way they were first known. you can not say this of your religion, you can only hope it to be true.

everything Muhammad ﷺ heard, he spoke and delivered to us, and it remains in and with us forever. he ﷺ did not speak of his own, but what God sent for him to speak.

Muhammad ﷺ revealed the truth about God to us, and he ﷺ came to us being sent by God, and stays with us forever.
yes, Muhammad ﷺ was sent even to the Jews and Christians -- to all of creation, as a mercy from God. there is no one closer to Jesus, the son of Mary, than Muhammad ﷺ.


> The Holy Spirit is a lie, and Muhammad is the paraclete.
again you continue to demonstrate your lack of knowledge of our religion.
the Holy Spirit, which is confirmed in the Bible as the Angel Gabriel -- we firmly believe in Islam as being an angel of God, but we do not elevate an angel to the rank of God as you have also elevated a man to God's rank.

to say that the Holy Spirit, the third in the trinity is the Paraclete, is a heresy:
to distribute between two persons or hypostases the expressions used in the gospels and others, as befitting one (instead of both persons/hypostases) and not the other -- separating them, it is denounced as a heresy of the church. to say that the Paraclete is one of the expressions that is distributed to the Holy Spirit, is to say also that it does not distribute upon Jesus.

Council of Ephesus (431 CE) wrote:
If anyone distributes between the two persons or hypostases the expressions used either in the gospels or in the apostolic writings, whether they are used by the holy writers of Christ or by him about himself, and ascribes some to him as to a man, thought of separately from the Word from God, and others, as befitting God, to him as to the Word from God the Father, let him be anathema.

so your assertion of the paraclete violates the trinity and is a heresy, violating the hypostatic union.
if Jesus described himself as the coming Helper, then you would have consistency; but this is not what was done.
to say that the Holy Spirit is the coming Helper is a heresy, in the same way that it is a heresy to distribute the suffering of death upon Jesus but not also upon God, and separate their co-equality, and co-existence.
Jesus says the Helper will not come unless Jesus goes-- but you say Jesus is co-equal and co-exists with the Holy Spirit, which would mean the Holy Spirit coming would mean Jesus has come; and if Jesus has come, the Helper can not.

further violation is in the co-unity of the wills of the three persons, by making the Holy Spirit the Helper:
as when you say that the Father can send the Son made manifest by the Holy Spirit, but the trinity, including Jesus and God (whom Jesus asks) can not send the third (Holy Spirit) as the Helper, unless the Son has left (which violates co-existence).

logically then, they must not be in a trinity, or you are incorrect to say the Helper is the Holy Spirit, or both.

if one of the persons of the trinity can create/destroy/send something against the will of the other two, then those other two persons are not god; for their inability to actualize their will is proof that they are weaker than the one who can, and that which is weak cannot be god.
if the three persons are unable to disagree with each other, then none of them is god-- in this case, each depends on the approval of the rest when creating anything, and what depends on others cannot be god.

either way, there cannot exist more than one divine person, so the trinity is false.

    [Qur'an 5:17] Those who have said that the Messiah, son of Mary, is God, have, in fact, committed themselves to disbelief.
    Ask them, "Who can prevent God from destroying the Messiah, his mother and all that is in the earth?"
    To God belongs all that is in the heavens, the earth, and all that is between them.
    God creates whatever He wants and He has power over all things.




you can not name one thing that the Holy Spirit heard from God and spoke to you -- because the holy spirit is not being spoken of. the text says "ANOTHER", so he would be like Jesus -- a prophet, a person. the text does not say "the holy spirit", but rather, "the spirit". this is why the church history includes many debates on when this Helper would come, and many claimants from the church who said they were the Helper that was sent.
you can not say that the Helper is the Holy Spirit, when Jesus says that "Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come";
the Holy Spirit was with and before Jesus at that time, so how could it come when it had already arrived? the holy spirit is not a he, but an it.
the Holy Spirit was already witnessed to have come; this was a promise of ANOTHER to come, ANOTHER sent by God, ANOTHER helper like Jesus.

moreover, the test of this Helper too, is that he would also DECLARE to you WHAT IS TO COME; this is undoubtedly verified in the life of Muhammad ﷺ, as he told many things would occur before they did (and every single one of these things came true).

manyprophetsonemessage.com/2016/03/27/accurate-predictions-a-sign-of-true-prophethood/
yaqeeninstitute.org/mohammad-elshinawy/the-prophecies-of-the-prophet-%EF%B7%BA-proofs-of-prophethood-series/


you claim that you have this in the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit has not, and can not, tell you any of the future events of what is to come.


funnily enough, the false prophet paul clearly made predictions that didn't come true. not only did Paul think he knew the hour would be in his life, something not even Jesus knew -- but he proclaimed openly that in his life, he and his followers would witness the return of Jesus and be caught up with him in the clouds. this never occurred.
    (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
    Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
    We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
    According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
    For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
    Therefore encourage each other with these words.

    [Deuteronomy 18:20-22]
    But if any prophet dares to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or to speak in the name of other gods, that prophet must be put to death.”
    You may ask in your heart, “How can we recognize a message that the LORD has not spoken?”
    When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD and the message does not come to pass or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.


certainly, paul proclaimed false doctrines and false prophecies, and he was mislead by Satan, a lightning from heaven.

    (Acts 22:6) About noon as I was approaching Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me.
    (Luke 10:18) Jesus told them: I saw Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning.


we have been lead into all truth, it remains with us, and we know it in our hearts. we know what was sent by God to Muhammad ﷺ, as he delivered it faithfully.

continue to hope in ignorance, i will continue to live by God and strive for Him. Jesus will say to you that he never knew you, and Jesus will return to testify that Islam is the truth, that there is none worth of worship but God, and that he, Jesus, is but a messenger, and servant, of God.





>Oh yeah, don't mind Muhammad leading a life of war and lusting after women and needing his heart "purified from sin" with snow,
you continue to demonstrate your lack of knowledge on Muhammadﷺ's life. this is all untrue, and i have demonstrated it to you before.
so you are knowingly persisting in lying, and it has been told to you multiple times that you are deliberately misconstruing this-- as no Muslim reports or understands it in the way you continue to do.

A) Abraham, peace be upon him, was spoken to by God at approximately 99 years of age -- so your argument is against Abraham too! God forbid.
B) According to your bible, David had a thousand concubines -- this was for lusting! Far above your lies are the Prophets.
C) before God sent Muhammad ﷺ the Qur'an, Muhammad ﷺ was known throughout the land for his honest and integrity, his truthfulness and good character.
but by that age, your god paul was known as a murderer, a liar, and a persecutor -- even when he came to 'know' Jesus.

i have told you many times that you are wrong in saying this, but you continue. i have told you many times that no Muslim believes what you are saying, and that Islam does not believe that Muhammad's ﷺ heart was "purified from sin". you are demonstrating nothing but willful ignorance to continue. that is why you say that Muhammad ﷺ lived an imperfect life, when you do not know any of his life story whatsoever.


    The opening of the chest of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) points to a number of important meanings:

    1 – Allaah opened his heart to Islam as a religion and law, which is the greatest thing to which the heart may be opened. This is the interpretation of Ibn ‘Abbaas, as reported by al-Bukhaari in a mu’allaq report in his Saheeh (Kitaab al-Tafseer/Baab Soorat al-Sharh, p. 982).

    2 – Allaah opened the chest of His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in order to fill it (his heart) with wisdom, knowledge and faith, as it was interpreted by al-Hasan al-Basri. The scholars mentioned in their commentaries on this incident of the opening of the Prophet’s chest, which happened twice during his life.


NONE OF IT WAS "TO WASH FROM SIN", WE REGARD EVERYONE SINLESS FROM BIRTH, WE REGARD CHILDREN AND PROPHETS TO BE FREE OF SIN.
HE WAS A CHILD WHEN IT OCCURRED, SO THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO SIN TO CLEANSE.


you have been told this multiple times, and no Muslim says what you say! so you are deliberately lying!


let us see what Islam actually says about war:
yaqeeninstitute.org/justin-parrott/jihad-as-defense-just-war-theory-in-the-quran-and-sunnah/

it is clear that the Bible is a much more violent book than anything Islam teaches-- Islam permits warfare for defensive purposes only; defending from active aggression.





> two dimensional creature can't fully understand a three dimensional object.
produce your proof of this; where are your two-dimensional creatures?
and while you are at it: produce your proof that you are educated or learned in any aspect on Qur'an and Sirah;
to what extent have you studied Islam, if you refuse to know the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ from authentic sources, and refuse to read the Qur'an?
clearly you do not have any room to make judgment or speak on Islam, as you do not know Islam in any way.

and what would stop God from further revealing His even truer nature to be five persons? or more ? there is no end to this insanity.
God is One, and that is all any Prophet ever taught; never three or a trinity or a man.





>Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

this has also been thrown out of the bible, and it is proved that Jesus never said such a thing. you are profoundly ignorant! this was added to Jesus' words to preserve the tradition the church established later!

that is why the record of the disciples shows they did not do this, as it was never what Jesus commanded.

    (Acts 2:38) "And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins



bloggingtheology.net/2017/03/14/1-john-57-and-matthew-2819-fabricated-trinity-verses/

    Conclusion: A) None of the disciples baptized: “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
    B) The formula that is quoted i.e. “Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” is never once referenced, not in any of the Gospels nor of Paul’s letters.
    C) Eusebius (260 – 339 CE) never once mentioned the formula, “Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” instead he only mentioned the name of “Jesus.”
    D) The Scholars quoted all agree that it was not part of the original text but an interpolation.


witness that God answers my prayers to endow me with the wisdom and knowledge to answer you (with detailed and elaborate expounding),
and yet God keeps you from even meting critical, informed, rigorous evaluation.



greatsage wrote:
HackOtaku wrote:
Jesus was both man and God

since that doesn't make any sense in the english language, or logically, it is important to seek the answer to the question of what the 'death of Jesus' truly means; in what sense did Jesus die --
Who died, How of, what?

who:
according to James White:
    A God-man is dying.
    By John 1:14, the Son became ‘one’ with the flesh of Christ.
    There is no intermingling of the natures.
    The divine nature does not cease to be divine.
    The human nature does not become something other than (or more) than human.
    The union (or the union of the God man) died.


now we have the who, and have to ask what the death means for the God-man. death has many meanings, and pastor Thabiti Anyabwile states that the death of Christ (God-man) is:

Pastor Thabiti Anyabwile wrote:
Jesus died. What can it mean to say the Son of God died? And how should the Christian respond to that news? The death of Jesus Christ means the death of death itself. The death of death in the death of Jesus Christ also means victory over death for those who trust in Christ as their God and Savior.



circular reasoning is employed here, he has said that the death of Jesus means the death of death. yet, what is death and how can death itself die?
in answering this problem, he gives six definitions for death:

    Death is a curse (Genesis 2:15-17).
    Death is wage (Romans 6:23).
    Death is an enemy (Jeremiah 9:21).
    Death is an agony (Luke 16:23-24),
    Death is both a physical and spiritual death (Ephesians 2:1-2,5).
    There are two deaths for unbelievers (Revelations 20:11-15).


by these (five) things being nullified/conquered by the divine Son, we are to understand that death 'died'.

it can be said that the Christ died a physical death by the hands of an enemy, through which he suffered agony and in doing so, the divine Son paid (nullified) the wages of sin and ended the curse of God upon the sinners.
this holistically covers points one through five, wherewith each nature playing a distinctive and fundamental role.

pastor Samuel Green agrees with this definition, given his endorsement of a comment made by a colleague of his via a discussion with myself, which was rendered as such:
pastor Samuel Green wrote:
“His physical body ceased to function, and a non-physical or immaterial aspect of His ontology became disembodied.”


given all of what we’ve been told by erudite christian apologists, we’re still at a juncture of disillusion – who actually died this physical death?

James White says that the divine Son became incarnate in the human known as Jesus, and the result is the God-man, without the two natures combining, yet he’s calls it a union, and a union is by definition the joining two two entities:

    The action or fact of joining together or being joined together, esp. in a political context.


how can they be a ‘union’ and yet the two distinct natures not be joined together?
it seems then, James White is speaking paradoxically (inconsistently).

the Catholic Encyclopedia attempts to give us some clarity (please note, by catholics they mean Trinitarian Christians):

    Nestorians: One person, two hypostases, two natures.
    Catholics: One person, one hypostasis, two natures.
    Monophysites: One person, one hypostasis, one nature.


given pastor Samuel’s definition and that of pastor Thabiti’s, we understand that the God-man suffered a physical death.

this would mean that the human (the body, the flesh) of the Son which is the Christ, died.

Jesus has two natures, his divine nature known as the Son and his human nature known as the flesh and blood of the Christ.

if he died a physical death (and this what is being claimed)-- then the flesh and blood of Christ died, that is the human nature died.

this now, brings us to a startling conclusion – the premise of John 3:16 is nothing short of a fallacious myth.
    (John 3:16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


yet, it is not the Son (divine nature) which died, but it is the physical Jesus which died.

if we take James White’s claim of the union of the God-man ‘dying’, then we come to the conclusion that the death of a union is the separation of both entities, i.e. the union is no more – the divine Son is no longer incarnate in the flesh of the human known as the Jesus.

this therefore presents a problem for Christianity, besides the Bible being wrong, the death itself was no major sacrifice. by the terms laid out by paul of tarsus and Thabiti, there is wages of death necessary for every person, and all of mankind, and so one person can not suffice, a bigger suffice must be necessary.

to understand this, i must simplify my terms of argumentation:
Son (divine nature) became incarnate in a human shell known as the blood and flesh of Jesus.
the flesh perished/suffered, but the (divine) Son, did not.
from this, it is therefore clear, that the shell is what died, and the death of a human, as Shaykh Deedat concludes, cannot pay for the sins of mankind -- only the death of the Son can achieve this -- which is what John 3:16 appeals to, but of which the Christological rendition of the death betrays.

this leaves us with not only confusion, mistrust and a lack of salvation, but most importantly – we’re left with the impression that Christians themselves do not understand what the death of the God man implies and how it affects their theology.

given all of the definitions, examples and explanations demonstrated, in the end – what we see is a belief on one end of the Christological spectrum and a practical reality on the other.

in saying this, the body which the divine Son could have entered (become incarnate), could have been any animate shell – another human such as a female or even an animal.

as shocking as it is, the body and flesh of the human Jesus does not matter, as what is needed for salvation according to Christianity -- is not the death of a human, but the death of a divine Son which they clearly do not believe in through saying that there is a dual nature to Jesus, who is fully God and fully man.

it is simply one of the classic go-to arguments by our christian brothers and sisters to argue that only the human nature suffered, not the divine nature.

the reason this is argued is to circumvent the law of non-contradiction. what is the law of non-contradiction?

    A cannot be A and not-A at the same time.


to circumvent this, we are told Jesus has two natures, so he suffered in one nature (the human nature or A) and didn’t suffer in another nature (the divine nature or B).
on the surface this may seem like a reasonable response, until you break it down:

Jesus, the 2nd person of the trinity and therefore God, can be said to have suffered. to say otherwise is to deny the personhood of Jesus in totality as the Trinitarian schema is presented to us. i.e., as the God-man suffered, so must the 2nd person of the trinity have suffered.

many christians and calvinists in particular are fond of this argument-- but other Christians historically and popularly accuse them of being nestorians by dividing Jesus into two persons, a human person and a divine person.
those who argue in the form that Calvinists and most other popular Christian speakers do, fall prey to being declared apostates:

Council of Ephesus (431 CE) wrote:
If anyone distributes between the two persons or hypostases the expressions used either in the gospels or in the apostolic writings, whether they are used by the holy writers of Christ or by him about himself, and ascribes some to him as to a man, thought of separately from the Word from God, and others, as befitting God, to him as to the Word from God the Father, let him be anathema.


we can abstract this ontological model even further:
God-man {(Father), (Son), (Holy Spirit)}
in this rendition, we can say the God-man suffered, as we are told each member of the Godhead is fully divine. so to say Jesus has two natures--and only one nature, the human nature suffered, is literally the heresy of nestorianism.
to say God-man died then rose again, is against saying only the human nature died/resurrected/suffered, as according to the trinity, it's still one being, one God-man, the whole God-man suffered and died equally.


[Qur'an 4:157-158] and for their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!"
However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so;
and, verily, those who hold conflicting views thereon are indeed confused, having no [real] knowledge thereof, and following mere conjecture.
For, of a certainty, they did not slay him:
nay, God exalted him unto Himself - and God is indeed Almighty, Wise.


greatsage wrote:
    "If the people of truth did not speak out in clarification of the truth, then the people of error would remain upon their mistakes,
    others would blindly follow them in that,
    and the sin of withholding the truth would fall back on those who remained silent."


in this spirit, i speak to whomever listens for truth

you have looked into the water and seen your reflection to be dirty,
but your salvation is not in simply cleaning your face.
you deserve to drink of that water, not a broken cistern that can hold nothing.
don't forsake the water because you were washed; be grateful,drink, and live clean.

there's no reason that you shouldn't be in on God's salvation plan.

Christians have to believe the following:
(1) God gave the Torah to a nation that could not keep it, and could never keep it
(2) God promised them that they can keep the Torah, despite knowing fully that they could not keep it
(3) God then punished the Jews severely and threw them from the land of Israel when they didn't keep the Torah --knowing fully that they couldn't keep it.
(4) 1300 years after the Torah was given by God, a guy named Paul comes along and says "Haha! You could never keep the Torah!"

imagine giving birth to a legless child, and then commanding it to run a marathon -- then severely beating the child for not doing so.
is this the Perfect, Most Merciful God? rather, it is a policy of insanity.






    (Psalm 19:7) The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is trustworthy, making wise the simple.

    (Psalm 119:155) Salvation is far from the wicked because they do not seek Your statutes.

    (Micah 7:7) But as for me, I will look to the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me.

    (Psalm 146:3) Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man in whom there is no salvation.

    (Ezekiel 18:32) For I take no pleasure in anyone’s death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

    (Jeremiah 2:13) For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, and they have dug cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

    (Isaiah 45:22) There is no other God but Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is none but Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

    (Deuteronomy 7:9) Keep in mind that the LORD your God is [the only] God. He is a faithful God, who keeps his promise and is merciful to thousands of generations of those who love him and obey his commands.

    (Deuteronomy 4:39) Know therefore this day and take to heart that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

    (Deuteronomy 30:8-20)
    You will again obey the Lord and follow all his commands I am giving you today.
    Then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land.
    The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors,
    if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

    Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.
    It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?”
    Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?”
    No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
    See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.
    For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws;
    then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

    But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient,
    and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them,
    I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed.
    You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

    This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses.
    Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him.
    For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


greatsage wrote:
i hope you reflect carefully on the many objections i have presented, HackOtaku.
i can not understand how you are so certain that other interpretations on John 8:58 are wrong,
while with your proposed interpretation--which is so fundamental for attaining salvation through love of a God which, with it, you can not understand or indisputably come to an understanding or identification of Him or His nature.

rather, it requires vague, implicit statements in ambiguous verses, verses that are not in the language of Jesus (so how could they reliably transmit the exact meaning, or authenticate that the transmission has been kept without interpolation, fabrication, or error?)

we can reliably transmit what was said by Muhammad ﷺ, because we have contemporary records, and written/oral records&traditions which can be scrutinised to ensure that no statements can be (or which have been) fabricated, and that what statements are known are reliably known and transmitted (and even to what degree of reliability and transmission), especially from known eye-witnesses and corroborating accounts directly from them and Muhammad's ﷺ companions.

we can also reliably demonstrate that the Qur'an has not been changed and is in the same original form as when it was revealed to Muhammad ﷺ, and we have it in its entirety.

    see this video for more: How To Prove The Quran Has Been Preserved Accurately
    youtube.com/watch?v=n281Zyywyn4


you don't have a full record of what has been attributed to Jesus, and there is not a similar standard or science of transmission in Christianity.

so how is it then that such a preserved revelation, and authentic transmissions, are not preferable to the foundation of the bible -- which is full of different and unknown authors, errors, and is not in its original form? there are many bibles, but there is only one Qur'an.

furthermore, how can you come to be foundationally opposed to the evil Jews being deceived into thinking they had succeeded in their deception and sin-- while holding that God either
(a) was lying about His nature in the old testament, or
(b) was hiding His true nature of being a Trinity, His relationship as three personalities, etc. for hundreds of years after Jesus

either way, how can you hold the deception of (a) or (b) preferable to
God being One, God being consistent in the old testament and with the words of Jesus (i.e., the interpretation that he was subordinate, submitting to, worshiping servant of God, no more than a mighty prophet and the Messiah), and also saving Jesus -- by answering his prayers for salvation?


please note that saying "Islam is just fabricated to lower Jesus to raise Muhammad ﷺ" can not only be demonstrably false by the biography of the Prophet ﷺ and historical evidence of the revelation of Qur'an, but it is also poisoning the well to avoid rational, critical analysis.

here is a very great website for addressing such claims of borrowing:
islamic-awareness.org/quran/sources/


i have read your posts many times so i hope you can return the favour and read, then re-read my posts.
i would suggest too, that you finally read the Qur'an so that you may have a better understanding of what Islam is presenting, vs. what you believe in -- the same way you did with christianity vs. your beliefs of atheism/agnosticism.

clearquran.com
quran.com

it is also best to get some historical context to understand whom the Qur'an speaks to among certain groups, and the circumstances of the revelation of the Qur'an, and Prophethood of Muhammad ﷺ, so that you may understand how Islam came to succeed against seemingly insurmountable struggles, to becoming the most popular religion, and Muhammad ﷺ the most influential person in history.

i really prefer the Umar series, as it is very accurate.
islamicity.org/9106/omar-ibn-khattab-series/

but if you want some good written biographies of the life of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, perhaps I can recommend to you The Sealed Nectar,
or perhaps "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings (an atheist convert to Islam).
its.org.uk/podcasts/
i really thoroughly enjoyed this one, and it is broken into multiple parts.

also, i highly recommend this audiobook, from the convert Yusuf Islam (raised christian):
youtube.com/watch?v=DCNb6lopYZw

truthfully i can not approach these without tears, as i find myself intoxicated by my love for the Prophet ﷺ, and the mercy of Allah upon me. anyone who sincerely studies this man can appreciate and love him. it is only because of Allah's guidance through Muhammad ﷺ, and his most highest example of faith and character,
that i am certain that Jesus is the virgin-born Messiah who will return to rule and judge.

may God preserve you in truth and patience, and guide us to Him in His righteous path: inspiring and filling our hearts to incline to Him, humbly and wholly, so that we may be well-pleasing to His Majestic Countenance; eternally at peace as servants of the Most High.
ameen, and may the peace, blessings, and mercy of God be with you, HackOtaku.
salaam


    which, then, is more unjust?:
      what it is that you will assert:
      through no evidence, that God deceived the Jews about the salvation through the Torah -- punishing them for failing to follow what He promised they could follow -- while knowing and hiding that they could not uphold it;
      or the truth established in God's Law:
      that God saved Jesus from an agonising, humiliating death and raised him alive to Himself, leaving the evil among the Jews confounded by their own evil&deception, while making plain the truth to the righteous followers?


    which, then, is more unjust?:
      what is it that you will assert:
      that God can not forgive us without sacrificing Himself, innocent and naked unto death for a curse He afflicts upon us -- damning all who can not or do not understand this to Hell eternally;
      or the truth established in God's Law:
      that God does not delight in the death and sacrifice of men, that God does not die, and that God makes available His fruits; salvation and forgiveness to everyone who turns to Him in love, truth, and repentance--rendering judgment in perfect Justice according to their deeds (thus not punishing the ignorant)?


    it is clear that God, by no means is unjust -- He is perfect and exercises perfection in all things; His Justice is absolute and perfect.
    the truth is far from what you assert, and has been made clear by God


witness that you will again run and hide when the truth is demonstrated.
not equal are the righteous and the unrighteous; not equal are those who accept truth to those who deny truth.
witness that you will not be capable of personally defending your claims and lies;
the truth has come, and falsehood by nature is bound to perish

_________________
Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Not according to what the Quran says!"

You are just like the Pharisees, no real understanding of God, only the claims that you understand the books.

Quote:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
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greatsage
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
"Not according to what the Quran says!"

You are just like the Pharisees, no real understanding of God, only the claims that you understand the books.

Quote:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.


i demonstrate understanding; you demonstrate a lack of knowledge. if you say the Qur'an says something, and it doesn't -- then you have spoken in error. besides, where did I say "not according to what the Qur'an says"?

this is the best you could offer. no doubt, you have been defeated in your claims and lies.

moreover, we are not people who teach the Torah nor are we pharisees, so this couldn't apply to us. Islam denounces hypocrisy, and it is not for anyone to know the secret, inner states of another;
Jesus knew the Pharisees by their actions (they had corrupted what he was sent to confirm of the Torah),
and by what was revealed to him by God of their inner states: Jesus could make judgments of others in this way, you can not.

similarly, you do not understand the words of your own Messiah -- truly, you are the most like the Pharisees who never understood a word of Jesus, peace be upon him.

if you were guided into all truth, you could say more than offer what has already been said, and what does not apply to me.

greatsage wrote:
witness that you will again run and hide when the truth is demonstrated.
not equal are the righteous and the unrighteous; not equal are those who accept truth to those who deny truth.
witness that you will not be capable of personally defending your claims and lies;
the truth has come, and falsehood by nature is bound to perish


way to poison the well, what a sad ad hominem. is this what your religion teaches you to do, how it teaches you to behave with people who sincerely approach you about God and the truth of Jesus?

and to treat others in the way you would hate to be treated? to ignore sincere pages of typing, and instead insult me?

this is hypocrisy -- that you act while you say salvation is in the one who said "treat others as you would love to be treated".

_________________
Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Discord: mdthr#7068


Last edited by greatsage on Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not running and hiding, I am pointing out that both you and the pharisees claim to understand God yet are blind to his character and the truth of his nature. When confronted with it, you claim it is too complicated, as if God should be simple for you. As if you're a better authority on the nature of God than Jesus.
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greatsage
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
I am not running and hiding, I am pointing out that both you and the pharisees claim to understand God yet are blind to his character and the truth of his nature. When confronted with it, you claim it is too complicated, as if God should be simple for you. As if you're a better authority on the nature of God than Jesus.


greatsage wrote:
in Islam, we do not say that God can be fully understood. we know God only through the way He reveals Himself to us, teaching through His Prophets.
God cannot be described and understood completely by any, or all, of these names-- but they help Muslims to think about and appreciate God's unknowable nature, and to strengthen our relationship with Him (although He can not be comprehended).


no, you are lying and haven't read a word i said, and that is how you are trying to accomplish running.

you have just been a witness to your own lies and willful ignorance, yet again.

    (Matthew 12:34-35) You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of his good store of treasure, and the evil man brings evil things out of his evil store of treasure.



your lies and abusive insults to others that are simply not true -- this is evil from your evil store of treasure.
out of the overflow of my heart, my mouth has spoken -- and i have brought good things out of my good store of treasure.

this is why we are so different; the good and the evil are not alike.
the arrogant are not like the humble.
the ignorant are not like those who seek knowledge.

_________________
Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Discord: mdthr#7068


Last edited by greatsage on Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're definitely not arrogant at all. Everyone know how humble you are.
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greatsage
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
Yeah, you're definitely not arrogant at all. Everyone know how humble you are.


you are on the defensive, and have been caught in your lies. you continue to insult me.

God knows how humble I am. I humble myself to Him and bow to Him regularly, daily. can you?
you are the one who presumes to know anything about me, and to know what others know.

still, you do not reply to any points made. even your plain falsehoods.

greatsage wrote:
witness that you will again run and hide when the truth is demonstrated.
not equal are the righteous and the unrighteous; not equal are those who accept truth to those who deny truth.
witness that you will not be capable of personally defending your claims and lies;
the truth has come, and falsehood by nature is bound to perish



HackOtaku wrote:
I am not running and hiding, I am pointing out that both you and the pharisees claim to understand God yet are blind to his character and the truth of his nature. When confronted with it, you claim it is too complicated, as if God should be simple for you. As if you're a better authority on the nature of God than Jesus.


greatsage wrote:
in Islam, we do not say that God can be fully understood. we know God only through the way He reveals Himself to us, teaching through His Prophets.
God cannot be described and understood completely by any, or all, of these names-- but they help Muslims to think about and appreciate God's unknowable nature, and to strengthen our relationship with Him (although He can not be comprehended).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHQpnQRzk_A

_________________
Imam ash-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Discord: mdthr#7068
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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
Yeah, you're definitely not arrogant at all. Everyone know how humble you are.
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t328163
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are messing with shit.
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