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t328163
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STN wrote:
t328163 wrote:

No institution teaches pascal but there's no demand for this poop language.


This is just your opinion.

I switched over to Delphi when i learned VS didn't support inline asm in x64. Was surprised at the capabilities of delphi while also the high level language features it provided. Fell in love instantly.

I personally think the reason .net and similar interpreted languages are more popular is cause professional programmers are lazy and they have crap like deadlines to worry about with moronic bosses who demand results without understanding the whole process. Time is of essence and whatever gets the job done fastest is preferred.


What the fuck are you talking about being lazy?

interpreted languages solve big problems in the software industry. You don't have to worry about managing memory manually, or securing your software and w.e, you are supplied with big 3rd party libs by huge communities, and much more!

it's not being about lazy, no one's lazy, it's just we ask ourselves "why write a software in 5 hours with pascal if i can do the same more efficiently in 30 min with c#?"
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predprey
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
You don't have to worry about managing memory manually, or securing your software and w.e, you are supplied with big 3rd party libs by huge communities, and much more!


you sir are a shining example for generations of software developers to come. outsourcing memory vulnerabilities and other security issues to 3rd party domain experts should be the new industry standard. software developers shouldnt have to be tied down by being responsible for these lame issues when designing their product nor take the blame when security issues arise due to their design, lest their creativity and innovation be limited! such lame issues should be delegated to 3rd parties so future developers can easily flaunt their efficient reduced lines of code during performance evaluation. on the same note we should start a petition to port the openssl project to c# to improve its memory management and security. why the hell is it using ASM in its codebase? doesn’t the authors know ASM is awfully inefficient with regards to lines of code?
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t328163
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just for the record, tls is the successor of ssl. Smile
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
It's funny how atom0s is protecting Pascal but i have yet not seen him write anything with it, he just likes to argue with others because it makes him feel good with himself.


It's funny how you continue to contradict yourself with every "point" you attempt to make.

Let's just get the starting point out of the way of me not using Pascal. Firstly I have, I just don't have a reason to use it on a daily basis, so I don't. Here's a project of mine that is somewhat recent, a plugin for a debugger that makes use of CE's auto assembler engine. This plugin is written in Pascal.
https://github.com/atom0s/CeAutoAsm-x64dbg

I'm not 'protecting' Pascal, I'm simply pointing out every flaw, incorrect and baseless bullshit 'point' you keep trying to make against it. All of which I have provided proof/links/etc. to back up what I have said and as a point to provide evidence as to why you are wrong.

You keep insisting on trashing on the language because you took a course that focused on C# and now have this mindset it's the best language in the world.

Something you could have taken a few minutes to actually look into is that C# is one of my main languages of choice. You are fighting with me like I hate C# which is the complete opposite. A lot of my work and projects focus on using C#. Most of my work for other companies involves C# (and things like Node.js etc.) But instead, you have this mindset that because I am disagreeing with you that I hate C# and think it's trash, which is not the case at all.


t328163 wrote:

Also, he claims to have jobs without a degree, yes it's possible to get an entry level job but if you want to stay a junior developer all your life and not promote to higher positions such as senior engineer or architect, then no problem Smile


The biggest difference between you and I is that I have actual background in working for high-end companies, working on low-level languages and machines, digging into a language further than a surface level usage like you seem to have only done. Your points you keep bringing up against Lazarus/Pascal are completely fact-less and just based on your opinion and feelings and not at all about truth.

Your main argument continues to be the .NET framework against Pascal, along with the IDE, granted your new petition topic covering your new 'bullet points' of why C# is better is again a total joke.


In your other topic, you yet again say nonsense like this:

t328163 wrote:

This movement is to yield db the excellence of visual studio productivity tools that lazarus lack such as smart intellisense, enhanced debugging capabilities and much much more!


These aren't even valid arguments against the language, you are now complaining and comparing parts of the IDE. Which also are just your opinion. It is very clear you don't use Pascal and never used Lazarus. Their intellisense is excellent and their debugger has been one of the better that I have experienced personally.


t328163 wrote:

despite that, the codebase could be reduced from over 500k loc to pretty much 125k loc thanks to wonderful C# lang features and .net technology.


I've already covered this, but again you are comparing things entirely out of context and out of scope of what you are trying to intend. CE's code base is very old. A lot of what DB has coded can be simplified in Pascals own standard libraries. If he felt the desire to cleanup the code and simply it, it can be done greatly using whats availabe to Pascal in FPC itself. Using the code base in its current state as a means to compare what it could be in .NET is completely invalid.


t328163 wrote:

i'm not sure if db is aware of the how easy it is to multithread in c#, especially thanks to TPL and async/await.


Again, already covered this. Another point you were talking out of your ass about.


t328163 wrote:

There's no demand for Pascal developers anymore. I have yet not to see a single job in ancient Pascal, the most underrated technology and pathetic language which lacks tons of features that the modern C# language has.


It's extremely funny how you keep bringing up things that do not matter at all to the discussion you created. The demand for Pascal has nothing to do with this topic or any of the points you have already tried to make. CE is a hobby project of DB's, it has nothing to do with him getting/having a job. (His knowledge of the Windows system/kernel in general is what employers would be interested in.)

CE's existence has nothing to do with what jobs are available in Pascal.

'lacks tons of features' - Again we've covered this, you talking out of your ass again with nothing to backup your claims.


t328163 wrote:

Look, i'm not saying C# is the best language all time. I'm just saying any OO language (especially C#) is preferred over Object Pascal, because its lack of features.


Your attitude and aggression in your posts says otherwise. You have yet to make a single case where Pascal can't do something that C# can, especially something that actually matters. Your previous claims against multithreading and such I already debunked.

Also you do realize you even said it yourself, 'Object Pascal'. It is an OO language.


t328163 wrote:

Now, the thing is, the reason i mostly recommend and prefer C# is because of language and framework features such as TPL, ThreadPool class, WPF which is the next generation for gui'd client development. it's good practice to implement mvvm within wpf for keeping the code-behind clean and not noisy. data binding reduces code thanks to XAML.


Pascal already offers multithreading / thread pooling, been over that. You just had no idea what you were talking about.

WPF is not new technology or the 'next generation', it's been around for years (since 2006). It is also not specific to C# or even written in C#. It has nothing to do with this discussion. It is also currently Windows specific (hence the name WPF) because of how it works. It is a wrapper around DirectX, not something that runs natively on other systems. The underlaying core of WPF as well is written in C++, the higher layer/wrapper is written in C#. Any language can write a wrapper around the base and implement WPF, it is not specific to C#. (It works in Vb.NET, C++.NET, C#, F#, IronPython, IronRuby, etc.)

If you want to discuss 'next-gen' UI development, web-front ends would be the current new trend, not WPF. Things such as Electron, Sciter, Qt (via QtWeb libraries), etc.

You want to keep basing your stuff on game related companies in some sense as well. Major game titles are not using WPF at all for their games, launchers, updaters, loaders, etc. They are mostly using things like Qt with QtWeb libraries (an alternative to Electron), Electron, C/C++ based related things that make use of Gdi+ or DirectDraw/Direct2D and so on.

MVVM has nothing to do with C# either, it is a design pattern. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

t328163 wrote:

Lazarus is a shitty ide. it's free for a reason, you know Delphi had barely good productive features and now downgrading to lazarus made it even worse lol.

t328163 wrote:

Delphi is not a language, it's an ide. object pascal is the language used in Delphi and Lazarus, which of course, lacks features.


Again you bashing things for no reason when you don't use it. It's free because it's open source.
Guess what? Visual Studio is also free. By your logic then, it's also shitty.

And the last part of this sentence is just you again talking out of your ass, shitting on things with nothing to back it up.


t328163 wrote:

interpreted languages solve big problems in the software industry. You don't have to worry about managing memory manually, or securing your software and w.e, you are supplied with big 3rd party libs by huge communities, and much more!


Memory management has nothing to do with the language itself being interpreted or not. It has to do with the design choices made for the language, and what the developers decided at the time of creating the language. An interpreted language can have the exact same memory management as something such as C/C++, Pascal, etc.

Also you're wrong to say 'you dont have to worry about managing memory manually', this is not true at all. There are plenty of well known problems with C#'s garbage collector and having to use workarounds such as GC.KeepAlive. Also C# has a native layer used via System.Marshal, along with offering unsafe contexts all where YOU are responsible for memory management.

'you don't have to worry about securing your software' - Are you serious? C# (and basically every other interpreted languages) biggest flaw/problem is that it is easily decompiled back to real source. Securing your work is one of the biggest focuses on deployment and shipping of software designed in an interpreted language, such as C#. There are tons of obfuscators/protectors made because of this problem. Again, if you understood this kind of stuff I don't think you would have mentioned this because this is so far from true. (Just Google C# and obfuscator, or deobfuscator etc. there are so many things around this, and even Microsoft advises against writing things in C# (or other .NET languages) that are sensitive/critical and instead to use a lower level language such as C/C++ instead.)


t328163 wrote:

it's not being about lazy, no one's lazy, it's just we ask ourselves "why write a software in 5 hours with pascal if i can do the same more efficiently in 30 min with c#?"


Again, this has nothing to do with the base language. It has to do with the libraries provided for it. You are comparing two languages together that has nothing to do with the code being used. The code you are writing and referring to are provided by wrappers/libraries in the .NET framework (which is not C# specific). Pascal offers it's own set of frameworks, libraries, etc. in a similar fashion. Your only comparison so far has been against CE's code base, which is not an adequate example of what Pascal has available and is capable of. DB does not make use of a lot of things offered in their libraries. His coding style is more of a raw, self-done experience.

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t328163
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atom0s isn't a specialized developer and is by fact degreeless.
He doesn't know and isn't aware of the productivity tools that vs has along with the capabilities of the framework.

Features of Common Language Runtime (CLR):
- Manages memory, execution of threads and code, verification of code safety, compilation, and other system services
- Implements code access security
- Ensures code robustness through a strict type-and-code-verification infrastructure called the common type system (CTS).
- Just-in-time (JIT) compiling enables all managed code to run in the native machine language of the system on which it is executing and memory manager removes possibilities of fragmented memory and increases memory locality-of-reference which enhances performance.
- Runtime can be hosted by server-side applications, such as Microsoft SQL Server and Internet Information Services (IIS) that are high on performance


also, note that some of the advantages of the language features are very realistic in terms of being very useful.

The success or failure of any project or product in the market is decided by its return on investment. Both the quantum of profits and time taken are important aspects of calculating ROI. The following features of .NET facilitate reduction of developmental and operational cost for an efficient IT organization.

Less Coding and Increased Reuse of Code:
This framework works on object-oriented programming which eliminates unnecessary codes and involves less coding for the developers. .NET consists of re-useable code and many re-useable components. This translates into less time and consequently less cost to develop applications.

Less Coding and Increased Reuse of Code:
This framework works on object-oriented programming which eliminates unnecessary codes and involves less coding for the developers. .NET consists of re-useable code and many re-useable components. This translates into less time and consequently less cost to develop applications.

Deployment:
With features such as no-impact applications, private components, controlled code sharing, side-by-side versioning and partially trusted code, the .NET framework makes deployment easier post development. The code execution environment supports safe code execution for reduced conflicts in software deployment and versioning, and minimized performance problems of scripted or interpreted environments.

Reliability:
Since its release in 2002, .NET has been used to develop thousands of applications. Its performance on Microsoft® Windows Server™ 2003 and Windows 2000 Server is also very stable and reliable.

Security:
.NET offers enhanced application security as web applications developed using ASP. NET have Windows confirmation and configuration. Managed code and CLR offer safeguard features such as role-based security and code access security.

Use across Platforms and Languages:
. NET allows developers to develop applications for a desktop, a browser, a mobile browser (like on your cell phone), or an application running on PDA. .NET is promoted as a language-independent framework, which implies that development can take place in different compliant languages that include C#, managed C++, VB.NET, Visual COBOL, IronPython, IronRuby and more.

Use for Service-Oriented Architecture:
.NET is often used for Web Services, which are a solution for executing an SOA strategy. Through Web Services, applications which are designed in different programming languages or platforms, are able to communicate and transmit data utilizing standard Internet protocols.

Integration with Legacy Systems:
The capability of .NET to process all types of XML documents and write any format of file with swiftness and ease, provides multiple routes for integration.

Let's see if he can prove me wrong.. Smile
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:12 am    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
atom0s isn't a specialized developer and is by fact degreeless.
He doesn't know and isn't aware of the productivity tools that vs has along with the capabilities of the framework.


See, this is all you can do now is resort to trying to hurt my feelings because you have been wrong entirely and refuse to admit it. Been over this already, me not having a degree has not prevented me from being successful in life. Keep dwelling on it though, doesn't bother me any if you want to keep crying like this.


t328163 wrote:

<copy pasted content from another website>


t328163 wrote:
Let's see if he can prove me wrong.. Smile


All you did was copy-paste an entire site's content:
https://www.invensis.net/blog/it/advantages-of-dot-net-framework-for-business-application-development/

Again, all things you don't understand.

At this point, you've already shown your age well enough to know that you aren't going to change your attitude or do anything other than continue to try and insult me or cry like a baby because CE isn't coded in C#. I've backed up everything I've said with fact and proof, links to actual material, etc. if you still want to act like this, then it's just a waste of anyone's time to bother trying to talk to you.

I encourage you to actually read up on what you want to keep claiming. It'll do you some good if you plan to actually try and get a job in a programming field.

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Csimbi
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good reading, some smiles and frowns here and there.
But, it's too much.
I suggest you lock this thread and t328163 sets up a github repo where he can work on his pet project.
The spice must flow.
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CptBrian
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is supposed to be about a dark theme for CE which it's desperately needed for ages.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming of bitch-fits where some basement-dwellers attempt to sort out their insecurities on an irrelevant thread in a niche internet forum. Arrow
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Dark Byte
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in windows enable high contrast mode, it looks better than dark mode as well


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t328163
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enabling contrast mode will make you feel like a true hacker Smile
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