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ipivb
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 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: HELL YEAH! Humans will evolve into robots, explained [video] |
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This subject has been on my mind for at least a year, everyone is apprehensive towards it, few people agree. But finally today I found a VERY good explanation of exactly why it WILL happen. The video is about 20 minutes long:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/06/enriquez.gullans.human.species/index.html
If you take this idea far enough in the direction it's going, eventually humans will be robots. We will live forever, and bring into possibility the idea of moving to another planet to live even longer than the Earth itself.
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M.CORP
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome!
But, aren't us humans won't be curious about our next evolution without controlling the evolutions of us?
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Geri
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I am not worried about this. Governments are interested in Your death so they will obviously not allow You to become some super-human. They don't want super-workers, they want super-dumb workers and a few elite to guide the masses of idiots. It would be a major problem for them if humans would evolve to the next level. All they want is Your money, not You.
Like in wars, they could save lives with better equipment. Do they care? No, if You die they will just hire someone in Your place. So why would they care more about civilians?
And if You think about the future on very long terms, it still isn't good for them if You live longer. They want You do die and be replaced by Your kids in the chain. If You live longer, You will get bored with their lies and know they are just playing with You. It is better if You die and a new generation is taking Your place.
This concept of being more advanced is just not fitting into the mentality of humans as it would cause chaos. You need to be miserable, controllable, or else the system will end up in chaos. A world where every human is equal and everyone is nice and not the enemy of the neighbour is unbelievable without changing all human's mind.
Where You see a possible advantage, You also see someone who want to grab that advantage and keep others from grabbing it.
I could imagine a world where resources are already infinite due to expansion in the universe and robots are doing most of the work, leaving zero work for the humans, but still, greed (which is in the very core of human mind) would ruin everything.
At least I think so, but that is just my opinion on humans.
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Seergaze3
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:57 am Post subject: |
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so we will become robots because soon we will be able to engineer cells and tissues?
this will probrobly go against human rights and the natural order of life, yet if this happens, people who got engineered will turn into super humans, the government will surely make use of this and create super soldiers, but this could also solve genetic and racial problems, the world could end either in homogeneity or Armageddon
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The Fish
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| im4eversmart wrote: | so we will become robots because soon we will be able to engineer cells and tissues?
this will probrobly go against human rights and the natural order of life, yet if this happens, people who got engineered will turn into super humans, the government will surely make use of this and create super soldiers, but this could also solve genetic and racial problems, the world could end either in homogeneity or Armageddon |
Someone else has tried top make a master race before.
look what happened to him.
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ipivb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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You have to think of this on a bigger level. Forget curing cancer, disease, lost limbs, etc... this is a cure for death itself. Death is something that everyone is plagued with eventually. Soon we can cure it, if stem cell research is allowed to progress.
I sure want to live forever. If given the choice of creating exactly the world I wanted to live in... it would be exactly like this one, with nothing changed. Another nail in the coffin for religion... heaven couldn't possibly be better than what we already have. Heaven is being said to be "better than you can imagine"... well wouldn't that like be playing a video game that has no challenge to it whatsoever? Video games have challenges because they wouldn't be fun otherwise. Life is no different.
So that's why I want to live as long as possible in this world. If I become superhuman in the mean time, then that's okay. The challenge of getting out of bed in the morning and cleaning up my room is certainly one challenge I could do without (and of course, robotic limbs would not be exhausting to use).
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Radiation
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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well, what about our souls? conscience?
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Geri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| ipivb wrote: | You have to think of this on a bigger level. Forget curing cancer, disease, lost limbs, etc... this is a cure for death itself. Death is something that everyone is plagued with eventually. Soon we can cure it, if stem cell research is allowed to progress.
I sure want to live forever. If given the choice of creating exactly the world I wanted to live in... it would be exactly like this one, with nothing changed. Another nail in the coffin for religion... heaven couldn't possibly be better than what we already have. Heaven is being said to be "better than you can imagine"... well wouldn't that like be playing a video game that has no challenge to it whatsoever? Video games have challenges because they wouldn't be fun otherwise. Life is no different.
So that's why I want to live as long as possible in this world. If I become superhuman in the mean time, then that's okay. The challenge of getting out of bed in the morning and cleaning up my room is certainly one challenge I could do without (and of course, robotic limbs would not be exhausting to use). |
Death is not a plague. If people would be unaffected by natural death, there wouldn't be enough space for all of them on the planet and they would start killing each other as usual, more humans will mean more killing. Humans are egoistic, aggressive and competitive (at least a "normal" human). They simply cannot live together. Sure You wish for eternal life, Your only problem is that everyone else is interested in Your death. You may be happy and everything now, but those who have a very hard life would come for You and take Your's if they could do it. Life isn't just challenging, people are dying all over the world with "not so natural" death, regardless how hard they try to stay alive.
Sure it will be possible for humans to live longer, but they will use this knowledge to tip the balance even more and become "gods" over the mortals. Ambitions and greed will always inspire at least one man to rise above the others. This means that the fight for power will never end.
Anyway the resources are limited and there is already too many people so most of the advanced countries are trying to lower the number of births and they do "things" to assure that You die sooner. Immortality doesn't seem to be main concern at the moment.
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ipivb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| itapa wrote: | | well, what about our souls? conscience? |
This is trivial. At the very least, we could simply leave the brain as it is, and use brain to computer interface. However the brain does die. What I'm thinking is that we could create new brain cells and slowly replace the old ones piece by piece. This should work.
| Geri wrote: | | ipivb wrote: | You have to think of this on a bigger level. Forget curing cancer, disease, lost limbs, etc... this is a cure for death itself. Death is something that everyone is plagued with eventually. Soon we can cure it, if stem cell research is allowed to progress.
I sure want to live forever. If given the choice of creating exactly the world I wanted to live in... it would be exactly like this one, with nothing changed. Another nail in the coffin for religion... heaven couldn't possibly be better than what we already have. Heaven is being said to be "better than you can imagine"... well wouldn't that like be playing a video game that has no challenge to it whatsoever? Video games have challenges because they wouldn't be fun otherwise. Life is no different.
So that's why I want to live as long as possible in this world. If I become superhuman in the mean time, then that's okay. The challenge of getting out of bed in the morning and cleaning up my room is certainly one challenge I could do without (and of course, robotic limbs would not be exhausting to use). |
Death is not a plague. If people would be unaffected by natural death, there wouldn't be enough space for all of them on the planet and they would start killing each other as usual, more humans will mean more killing. Humans are egoistic, aggressive and competitive (at least a "normal" human). They simply cannot live together. Sure You wish for eternal life, Your only problem is that everyone else is interested in Your death. You may be happy and everything now, but those who have a very hard life would come for You and take Your's if they could do it. Life isn't just challenging, people are dying all over the world with "not so natural" death, regardless how hard they try to stay alive.
Sure it will be possible for humans to live longer, but they will use this knowledge to tip the balance even more and become "gods" over the mortals. Ambitions and greed will always inspire at least one man to rise above the others. This means that the fight for power will never end.
Anyway the resources are limited and there is already too many people so most of the advanced countries are trying to lower the number of births and they do "things" to assure that You die sooner. Immortality doesn't seem to be main concern at the moment. |
I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you. Why would our government spend almost half of its money on healthcare?
Sure humans are greedy. But we are also compassionate. The reason we have both of these emotions is because they helped our survival. We were more able to survive if we worked in packs and helped each other out, but we also needed some greed in order to balance out that compassion.
Therefor, yes if some of us become superhuman, it's likely we'll try to take advantage of our power. But our sense of compassion will balance out the greed, and we will still work in groups to help each other out.
Humans need socialization. We are more than just viscous dogs out to get each other (although even dogs are kind towards their own species). I think you have the wrong idea of what a human is really made of. We are not pure evil, and neither is the government.
The best I can get out of your post is that you are referencing Africa. It's no surprise they are eating their own children over there... seriously. They're all stupid afro american humans. Need I say more? I'm talking about America or China. The rich countries. Better technology, better standards, better everything.
[mod]post edited to remove word filter evasion[/mod]
Last edited by ipivb on Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Receding
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: |
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This sounds like the plot to 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Eventually we'll be travelling around the universe as the only sentient beings, influencing basic lifeforms into evolving intelligence.
Then we'll build monoliths and have them do the job for us as we evolve further and become lifeforms of pure energy.
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Geri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you. Why would our government spend almost half of its money on healthcare? |
By "our", I guess You mean Your government as most governments doesn't even have any money at all to spend. That is what I was talking about, just look around in other countries too and You will find plenty of people who want to take Your place. And if You know a bit about the current system, it is taking every possible step to try decreasing the average lifetime and get rid of old people to have some space for the new.
There are methods to extend the lifetime of a human with 20-30 years. Never heard of it? Guess why... they don't want You to live that long.
| Quote: | | Sure humans are greedy. But we are also compassionate. The reason we have both of these emotions is because they helped our survival. We were more able to survive if we worked in packs and helped each other out, but we also needed some greed in order to balance out that compassion. |
Greed is not neccessary for survival. Animals are not greedy the way as humans are. They don't have the "never enough" attitude that humans have. And when it is never enough, You always want to take something from others. We work together in packs and we fight together in packs against other packs.
| Quote: | | Therefor, yes if some of us become superhuman, it's likely we'll try to take advantage of our power. But our sense of compassion will balance out the greed, and we will still work in groups to help each other out. |
No, it will not. Just look around. Rich countries are attacking poor countries if they have something worthy and tip the balance even more. What would happen if they would even have super soldiers? 5% would rule over the 95%. It would be total slavery. People in rich countries don't give a crap about people in poor countries and I do not blame them, but why would this change if it didn't change so far?
| Quote: | | Humans need socialization. |
Yes but this doesn't mean they want to unite the whole humanity. As I said, rich people don't care about the poor and they have a reason to do so. People are socializing on their own level, not globally. You don't need 10 billion friends. It would be troublesome to manage Your time and talk with all of them. Humans are socializing in smaller groups and anyone outside of the group is just a nobody.
| Quote: | | We are more than just viscous dogs out to get each other (although even dogs are kind towards their own species). I think you have the wrong idea of what a human is really made of. |
In some aspects, dogs are superior compared to us.
World War...
World War 2...
Read up on the subject to know what was going on there.
The FPS games where You shoot everyone to pieces are not just in games. Sign up for being a soldier. If You have seen a few wars all around the world, maybe You will have another opinion.
| Quote: | | We are not pure evil, and neither is the government. |
Yep, I have seen some ugly stuff. And You will see stuff too. And when You realize that life is not a pink dream, it will be time for You to die and another, once again naive and controllable human take Your place. Statistics shows that most people do not trust in polititians and journalists. They have a good reason to think so.
Study history and politics. It isn't full of nice people who are giving free candies for the masses. It is full of dictators and master manipulators. Today's governments are relying on propaganda and the brainwashing TV to make You believe they are working for You etc. But if You look behind the TV, You will see that this is just a show for the masses and You are just an asset to serve those who are on a higher level than You.
History has proved that people will kill each other as long as they are existing and even animals have "ranks" in the packs. Why would a leader give You something that will make You as His/Her equal? Why would they offer eternal life for others too, when they can keep it for themselves?
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Receding
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Geri wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm sorry but I just can't agree with you. Why would our government spend almost half of its money on healthcare? |
By "our", I guess You mean Your government as most governments doesn't even have any money at all to spend. That is what I was talking about, just look around in other countries too and You will find plenty of people who want to take Your place. And if You know a bit about the current system, it is taking every possible step to try decreasing the average lifetime and get rid of old people to have some space for the new.
There are methods to extend the lifetime of a human with 20-30 years. Never heard of it? Guess why... they don't want You to live that long.
| Quote: | | Sure humans are greedy. But we are also compassionate. The reason we have both of these emotions is because they helped our survival. We were more able to survive if we worked in packs and helped each other out, but we also needed some greed in order to balance out that compassion. |
Greed is not neccessary for survival. Animals are not greedy the way as humans are. They don't have the "never enough" attitude that humans have. And when it is never enough, You always want to take something from others. We work together in packs and we fight together in packs against other packs.
| Quote: | | Therefor, yes if some of us become superhuman, it's likely we'll try to take advantage of our power. But our sense of compassion will balance out the greed, and we will still work in groups to help each other out. |
No, it will not. Just look around. Rich countries are attacking poor countries if they have something worthy and tip the balance even more. What would happen if they would even have super soldiers? 5% would rule over the 95%. It would be total slavery. People in rich countries don't give a crap about people in poor countries and I do not blame them, but why would this change if it didn't change so far?
| Quote: | | Humans need socialization. |
Yes but this doesn't mean they want to unite the whole humanity. As I said, rich people don't care about the poor and they have a reason to do so. People are socializing on their own level, not globally. You don't need 10 billion friends. It would be troublesome to manage Your time and talk with all of them. Humans are socializing in smaller groups and anyone outside of the group is just a nobody.
| Quote: | | We are more than just viscous dogs out to get each other (although even dogs are kind towards their own species). I think you have the wrong idea of what a human is really made of. |
In some aspects, dogs are superior compared to us.
World War...
World War 2...
Read up on the subject to know what was going on there.
The FPS games where You shoot everyone to pieces are not just in games. Sign up for being a soldier. If You have seen a few wars all around the world, maybe You will have another opinion.
| Quote: | | We are not pure evil, and neither is the government. |
Yep, I have seen some ugly stuff. And You will see stuff too. And when You realize that life is not a pink dream, it will be time for You to die and another, once again naive and controllable human take Your place. Statistics shows that most people do not trust in polititians and journalists. They have a good reason to think so.
Study history and politics. It isn't full of nice people who are giving free candies for the masses. It is full of dictators and master manipulators. Today's governments are relying on propaganda and the brainwashing TV to make You believe they are working for You etc. But if You look behind the TV, You will see that this is just a show for the masses and You are just an asset to serve those who are on a higher level than You.
History has proved that people will kill each other as long as they are existing and even animals have "ranks" in the packs. Why would a leader give You something that will make You as His/Her equal? Why would they offer eternal life for others too, when they can keep it for themselves? |
I'm sorry, but some of this is the most nonsensical pretentious stuff I have ever seen.
And why do you captialize "You" and "Your"? Are you christian and do you believe he is god?
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Geri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And why do you captialize "You" and "Your"? Are you christian and do you believe he is god? |
Obviously not. I don't think that capital letters are used only for gods.
| Quote: | | I'm sorry, but some of this is the most nonsensical pretentious stuff I have ever seen. |
Which part? I am open to discussion just someone convince me with facts, that I am wrong and humans will change in a blink of an eye. Because so far, anything that can be used to kill others and take advantage on others was used that way. And immortality is definitely something that would be worth the fighting.
Are governments honest? Is there peace on Earth? Are there no poor countries where people are dying very early? Is there enough resource for everyone?
I don't see which one of these is nonsense so I am curious about other opinions.
Btw. the first part of the video (about the financial system) just shows how perfect is the world at the moment and what is the human mentality about greed.
So in summary, the first part of the video is about banks and governments, showing how should You say "NO" to them (which is not possible without the use of force). The second part is about technology. The conclusion of the video is probably not that You have to rebel against governments and banks so in return, they can give You eternal life.
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ipivb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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All I can say is that the Earth is not doing too bad. The only real resource I can think of that we don't have enough of is fossil fuels... and technology will fix that. Civilization is just not as bad as you're making it out to be.
If you look back 100 years ago, peopled worked really hard with very little entertainment. If you look back 10,000 years ago, life was about just being able to survive. We have it so good today that we forget what life has been like up until very recently.
Maybe you're in one of those poor countries like isreal. The very nature of mathematics itself prevents there from ever not being a trade deficit. That's why there are poor countries. There's not really anyway to fix it, so the best we can do is have governments that lend money to each other so the poor countries can sustain for at least a little while. But the world is not that bad. If someone is depressed that they were born in a poor country... well, they should be happy they weren't born 50,000 years ago when they had to hunt for their own food and didn't have sophisticated ways of communicating.
My point is that however bad life seems right now... it has been much worse in the past, when we didn't have governments. If we had a better idea then that's what we'd be doing, but what we're in right now is the very best of the best ideas that all of the billions of people in the world could come up with.
America is based off the idea of freedom. But freedom goes both ways. You are free to start your own business and monopolize the market. But we have to have a government in place to stop you from going too far, and help the poor live better lives. That's why we have taxes that allow food stamps, healthcare, military, police, etc... these things keep us civilized, while still allowing freedom.
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Geri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The only real resource I can think of that we don't have enough of is fossil fuels... and technology will fix that. |
You should look into the current economy of the world. There are a bit more problems than just the lack of fossil fuels.
| Quote: | | If you look back 100 years ago, peopled worked really hard with very little entertainment. If you look back 10,000 years ago, life was about just being able to survive. We have it so good today that we forget what life has been like up until very recently. |
Go to Africa and ask about how is life there. They don't watch TV all day and play games. The extra luxury that You get in advanced countries is taken away from the 3rd world's countries.
| Quote: | | Maybe you're in one of those poor countries like isreal. |
Israel is not a poor country at all. It is ranking 24th on the list of countries with the strongest economies. Even though I don't live in Israel, I know that life is not too hard there compared to some other countries.
| Quote: | | The very nature of mathematics itself prevents there from ever not being a trade deficit. That's why there are poor countries. There's not really anyway to fix it, so the best we can do is have governments that lend money to each other so the poor countries can sustain for at least a little while. |
Probably You have no idea how is the bank system working. The whole system itself is unbeatable in every country, as there is never enough money to pay the plus interest. So banks are lending more money, which will have bigger interest and so on until people will have nothing but debt. This is why economy sucks now. The idea of interest has started the never-ending cycle of getting into bigger and bigger debt. Say some countries where the prices are not increasing... Money is always loosing it's value with time, thus the debts are higher and higher.
| Quote: | | But the world is not that bad. If someone is depressed that they were born in a poor country... well, they should be happy they weren't born 50,000 years ago when they had to hunt for their own food and didn't have sophisticated ways of communicating. |
You said Israel is poor. And as I have mentioned they are ranking 24th. So how many countries are in worse shape than them? Like 100 at least. Then we can safely say that the majority of humans are living in poor countries by Your standard. This is not a matter of my personal opinion and I am not depressed, I just look around in the world to see what is going on. Do the same and talk with people from all around the world. Well You cannot speak with most of them because they don't have internet and other fancy things, but if You manage to communicate with them, You will see the big picture. The technological advantage over the people of the past doesn't mean that we have a happier life than them. Or else, why is the number of suicides growing steadily? Guess people are not happier.
| Quote: | | My point is that however bad life seems right now... it has been much worse in the past, when we didn't have governments. If we had a better idea then that's what we'd be doing, but what we're in right now is the very best of the best ideas that all of the billions of people in the world could come up with. |
So ever wonder why has the USA so many enemies? Guess something has happened to piss off the rest of the world. And it is not because they are jealous or something. Contact other people outside of Your country and ask what is their opinion on the USA. The answer will usually not be pretty. I respect my friends in the USA but I don't think that the country itself is the best ever.
China is not the best place to live in and it is not free or comfortable, but they have a rising economy. Germany's economy between the 2 world wars was put together by the Nazi government and Russia was developed to an advanced country by Stalin (before Stalin, Russia was a very poor country, just a black spot on economical map).
When economy is not held with a steady hand, it is always falling together and even the USA's history shows that. The "New Deal" in the 30's or just the recent efforts to save the economy with the taxpayers money.
| Quote: | | America is based off the idea of freedom. But freedom goes both ways. You are free to start your own business and monopolize the market. But we have to have a government in place to stop you from going too far, and help the poor live better lives. That's why we have taxes that allow food stamps, healthcare, military, police, etc... these things keep us civilized, while still allowing freedom. |
Governments are just lapdogs of the banks who are controlling the economy, they don't have any real power. What they have is debt. Yes even the USA. The recent economical crisis should make this clear. Along with the video that You have linked. The modern economy is always going up and down. It is just going up and up for a while, You feel things are awesome, than it is crashing down in the form of an economical crisis. This is how the system is working. Rising economy, crisis, then again rising economy, crisis, but You can never break the cycle as You never get out of debt. And when a crisis strikes, governments are taking the economy in their hands for a while, restricting the freedom of the people, until things get under control. In fact, none of the governments can provide freedom and economic stability at the same time. Sometimes they need to be strict and if things are better, they let You play the important citizen, while they are busy with thinking out more hidden taxes to pay the debts.
As it was on the video, things are worse and worse because the debt of the USA (and other countries') are just higher and higher. This video was not made to reassure You that everything is alright. It was made as a wake up call to see already that things are wrong, very wrong.
The best picture on the video was the guy who is sitting with a smile in the pool, while the electricity cable is just floating on 2 sandals. I bet the guy wasn't there to show what is the good example. At least I guess He was the dumb, who shouldn't be followed.
And to go back to the 2nd part, these implants were made years ago, it is nothing new in science. But I don't see too many people walking around with these implants. Improvements like this can become a standard in time for sure, but eternal life is another matter. That would totally tip the balance of life, economy and basically everything. Not to mention that as I have said, the number of suicides are rising so people are not really concerned about eternal life as they cannot even sustain their current life.
There are some major problems that should be solved before something like this could happen and it would require changed in the whole human mentality. Which is without precedent in history so far. All utopistic visions have gone off-track somewhere. As it was said: "Every man is equal, but some of them are just more equal than the others."
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