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atom0s
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: |
| Quote: | | Voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012. That figure was also below the 60.4 level of the 2004 election but higher than the 54.2 percent turnout in the 2000 election.Nov 8, 2012 |
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Wonder what the percentages of that missing percent falls under categories that cannot vote or lost the right to vote. Such as:
- People with mental disabilities.
- People in jail. (Per-state basis.)
- People that are convicted felons. (Per-state basis.)
And so on. Wonder how much that would account for the lack of voters then. Given how over-populated the jails in the country are I wouldn't be surprised if that number is pretty high.
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HackOtaku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: |
| Quote: | | Voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012. That figure was also below the 60.4 level of the 2004 election but higher than the 54.2 percent turnout in the 2000 election.Nov 8, 2012 |
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Wonder what the percentages of that missing percent falls under categories that cannot vote or lost the right to vote. Such as:
- People with mental disabilities.
- People in jail. (Per-state basis.)
- People that are convicted felons. (Per-state basis.)
And so on. Wonder how much that would account for the lack of voters then. Given how over-populated the jails in the country are I wouldn't be surprised if that number is pretty high. |
Not sure about the people in jail/mentally disabled lot, but I will say that convicted felons are no longer counted among eligible voters. Felons lose the ability to vote.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | atom0s wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: |
| Quote: | | Voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012. That figure was also below the 60.4 level of the 2004 election but higher than the 54.2 percent turnout in the 2000 election.Nov 8, 2012 |
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Wonder what the percentages of that missing percent falls under categories that cannot vote or lost the right to vote. Such as:
- People with mental disabilities.
- People in jail. (Per-state basis.)
- People that are convicted felons. (Per-state basis.)
And so on. Wonder how much that would account for the lack of voters then. Given how over-populated the jails in the country are I wouldn't be surprised if that number is pretty high. |
Not sure about the people in jail/mentally disabled lot, but I will say that convicted felons are no longer counted among eligible voters. Felons lose the ability to vote. |
That is actually per-state, some states allow felons to vote again as soon as they are released from prison. While others are banned for life. Which makes it a bit rough to determine the true number of eligible non-voters.
There are a lot of other sub-categories that would fall into why someone doesn't or can't vote too. Makes it a pretty grey area in determining any real percentages for that part.
Then if you want to get into the conspiracy theory side of things, how many people are deemed eligible to vote that are even still alive? The government is not the greatest at keeping track of people that are and aren't dead. Along with things like solders over seas in combat etc, that are either dead and their status is unknown or miss voting entirely due to being in combat.
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HackOtaku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Those are all solid points, and the number might not be exactly perfect in determining how many eligibles didn't vote. That being said, I still know there's a very pervasive attitude in America that voting is mostly pointless, and I feel like if you took 100 people from the streets and asked if they voted/plan to vote, you would get a large number of them who abstain.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | Those are all solid points, and the number might not be exactly perfect in determining how many eligibles didn't vote. That being said, I still know there's a very pervasive attitude in America that voting is mostly pointless, and I feel like if you took 100 people from the streets and asked if they voted/plan to vote, you would get a large number of them who abstain. |
I agree. A lot of things are factoring into that now outside of just the whole 'vote doesn't count' attitude too I think. Such as the lack of success rate in a president campaign promises vs. what they actually accomplish in their 4-8 years in office. People are seeing a lot less success rate in presidents actually doing what they say they are going to. (Granted it is not always their fault, and the Senate plays a huge role in what does and doesn't get put into effect.)
It boils down to the government really needing a big overhaul or at least a massive change in leadership. Having these 70-80 year olds still in play and doing little to favor the popular opinion of the people, it definitely does not help get people interested in trusting their own government has their best interest in mind.
It would make more sense that the entire USA has a bigger say or overall vote in decisions vs. sending 1-2 people to Senate to vote for 'majority' of the state the person comes from. Especially when a states popular vote tends to differ from what the representative votes for.
Another huge issue is the overall increase in scandals, stealing (money and other property etc.) and so on. People are becoming less trustful in people in office since every month it seems a new story releases that someone was lying, stealing or doing something else illegal for their own gain or for the gain of their group of people. Kids are taught to respect their elders and trust their government and when they see things like this, they have no reason to.
It also doesn't help that kids are taught to not be bullies and respect one another, yet on TV during campaigning all you see is slander and bullying between each party. It's an entirely hypocritical to say, teach and preach one thing yet act different in front of kids.
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HackOtaku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Those are all solid points, and the number might not be exactly perfect in determining how many eligibles didn't vote. That being said, I still know there's a very pervasive attitude in America that voting is mostly pointless, and I feel like if you took 100 people from the streets and asked if they voted/plan to vote, you would get a large number of them who abstain. |
I agree. A lot of things are factoring into that now outside of just the whole 'vote doesn't count' attitude too I think. Such as the lack of success rate in a president campaign promises vs. what they actually accomplish in their 4-8 years in office. People are seeing a lot less success rate in presidents actually doing what they say they are going to. (Granted it is not always their fault, and the Senate plays a huge role in what does and doesn't get put into effect.)
It boils down to the government really needing a big overhaul or at least a massive change in leadership. Having these 70-80 year olds still in play and doing little to favor the popular opinion of the people, it definitely does not help get people interested in trusting their own government has their best interest in mind.
It would make more sense that the entire USA has a bigger say or overall vote in decisions vs. sending 1-2 people to Senate to vote for 'majority' of the state the person comes from. Especially when a states popular vote tends to differ from what the representative votes for.
Another huge issue is the overall increase in scandals, stealing (money and other property etc.) and so on. People are becoming less trustful in people in office since every month it seems a new story releases that someone was lying, stealing or doing something else illegal for their own gain or for the gain of their group of people. Kids are taught to respect their elders and trust their government and when they see things like this, they have no reason to.
It also doesn't help that kids are taught to not be bullies and respect one another, yet on TV during campaigning all you see is slander and bullying between each party. It's an entirely hypocritical to say, teach and preach one thing yet act different in front of kids. |
Yeeeeep. It's really unsettling. It's just common knowledge at this point that pretty much every politician in congress has been bought out by some corporation or another, and there's far too much shady backroom deals going on every day. And yeah, then you get presidents like Obama who fuel a campaign promising "change", and then delivers another 8 years of all the same shit we've been dealing with, and it's very easy to lose any kind of faith in the American political system. Not to mention the Citizen's United decision allowing corporations to bankroll campaigns.
Like you said, America needs a massive overhaul of the system, but we need politicians to lead this overhaul, and they don't really want to, because they're currently getting mad money by being corrupt.
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Euphorical
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Kurifodo
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Just a reminder that Trump is increasing his lead in the polls since this thread was made:
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Rin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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wow even after the McCain remark?
thats impressive kinda... idk... i was thinking geopolitical shit would hit the ceiling
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deleted19776
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I do agree with you that income distribution wise, we are in another Gilded Age considering how workers have very little power. This time it's through different reasons though, and i'd say it's only going to get worse thanks to people like averageazn and me.
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HackOtaku
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Waxxup wrote: |
I do agree with you that income distribution wise, we are in another Gilded Age considering how workers have very little power. This time it's through different reasons though, and i'd say it's only going to get worse thanks to people like averageazn and me. |
Rein in your ego.
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AverageAzn247
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Rin wrote: | | atom0s wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Rin wrote: | | greatsage wrote: | | the only sensible option is to not vote |
Actually this is the most appealing response I've seen here regarding voting...
Public Choice Theory also proves this mathematically for the majority of Americans.... |
Respectfully disagree. Voting is one of the few ways to have your voice heard. The general apathy towards voting is part of the reason why we're in so much shit right now. |
More people are also beginning to realize that while the electoral college is around, popular vote does not matter if presidents target key states during their campaigning. Not to mention the candidates in the last handful of elections have not on everyones favorite list of people. |
HackOtaku, you can disagree based on a moral basis, but mathematically... if your vote does not carry sufficient weight in terms of satisfaction by voting versus the cost of you going to vote, you have a net loss....
Now... if everyone was to stop voting... I'd go ahead and go vote... because my one vote now counts a shit ton...
This is true for simple democratic theory
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As for our Electoral College system... your vote really is meaningless in most states as the electoral college does not have to vote the same way as a state (unless you're in one of those states that have a rule where the electoral college voter has to go with whatever the state goes with).... |
for prez elections it doesn't matter that much but for local... alot of local positions are won/lost by less than 1,000 votes due to the low turn out.
| Waxxup wrote: | | AverageAzn247 wrote: | | lilkid wrote: | | Waxxup wrote: | | Clifford wrote: | Black America is stuck in a poverty cycle; a cycle that sees no end in sight. Black families who are poverty ridden give birth to new children who will likely be the same. Racial hatred in America is for the most part absent in the new generation, but the minorities still remain to live in the slums. Countless numbers of Governmental programs are designed to break this poverty cycle, but in 2015 those programs are holding Black America back. Welfare is great to help people in need to get back on their feet, no doubt. However, much of Black America (and the rest of America too) are on Welfare so long that they don't want to get up on their feet anymore. Kids from a young age don't plan for their future because they know the safety nets of tax payers will save them.
Unless a major change is made in Welfare, minorities will still continue to be poverty struck for generations to come. It won't be the White Man's fault anymore, it will be their own fault. |
You're completely right. The black community will be staying on welfare and unhappiness thanks to how welfare is structured to be nicer than a minimum wage job. It's difficult enough to make the leap from welfare to a job, yet it's even more difficult when you make more on welfare than doing the job. That's why I don't believe in being any more generous to the poor than we are right now. The solution is to convert tax breaks for the rich to tax breaks for the middle class. I agree with Hillary Clinton's plan on her profit sharing thing, it's a step in the right direction.
However, more government bloat and mismanagement that Hillary (and Bernie) proposes far outweighs the crude remarks about illegal immigrants by Trump. Why? Because Hilary and Bernie actually believe in them while Trump is doing that for any good or bad attention, not because he actually believes in it. |
Trump speaks the truth, illegal immigrants do no good for America except rape white women and drug cartels. |
Idk I need someone to water my garden and build my houses cheaply. Housing prices in tx have gone through the roof |
Wouldn't you rent at your age? |
i live with my parents because saving 1k a month means i can buy alot more teemo skinz
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A girl group? |
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deleted19776
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| HackOtaku wrote: | | Waxxup wrote: |
I do agree with you that income distribution wise, we are in another Gilded Age considering how workers have very little power. This time it's through different reasons though, and i'd say it's only going to get worse thanks to people like averageazn and me. |
Rein in your ego. |
By saying "people like averageazn and me", it clearly means software developers. McDonalds will hire software developers to automate stuff that minimum wage workers do. Walmart will do the same. So I'm all for increasing it, it'll just make us richer.
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AverageAzn247
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Waxxup wrote: | | HackOtaku wrote: | | Waxxup wrote: |
I do agree with you that income distribution wise, we are in another Gilded Age considering how workers have very little power. This time it's through different reasons though, and i'd say it's only going to get worse thanks to people like averageazn and me. |
Rein in your ego. |
By saying "people like averageazn and me", it clearly means software developers. McDonalds will hire software developers to automate stuff that minimum wage workers do. Walmart will do the same. So I'm all for increasing it, it'll just make us richer. |
#noonecares
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| Waxxup wrote: | What are Night Elves?
A girl group? |
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Rin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| AverageAzn247 wrote: | | for prez elections it doesn't matter that much but for local... alot of local positions are won/lost by less than 1,000 votes due to the low turn out. |
Yup, this is true but this still means that it is 1 in 1000, for the probability of decisiveness
p=.001
I would still have to consider my vote to be worth 20,000 USD... a lot less than a presidential election, but high nonetheless
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