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ControlAltDelete
Friendly Giant

Reputation: 157

Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject:

you fail to grasp reality with how much you're putting into religion dude, because religion isn't reality and you are mentality unstable

stop doing drugs and seek medical attention

or call the cops on yourself you crazy bastard
_________________

Shrooms wrote:

but sadly this is 1984 and western civilization the last ones standing at the top of titanic before it sinks...no matter what you do, they know

finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?

Reputation: 13

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject:

ControlAltDelete wrote:

0 substance and 0 argument. nothing beyond name calling and it takes nothing away from the truths i've spoken. you do not drink of my mouth, you drink of your piss and folly.

1929394839292057839194958
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme

Reputation: 130

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1509

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject:

Tyler you're doing more harm than good by not even reading what he's saying correctly just stop lol

finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?

Reputation: 13

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 0

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject:

konr wrote:

Tyler you're doing more harm than good by not even reading what he's saying correctly just stop lol

he has huffed too much paint. there is a certain kind of sadness to find in a homeless drunk who has already hit the bottom of their bottle.

the kind of sadness is intensified 100 fold in the same look in the face of someone with paint over their nose and face.

pic related. it's tyler.

br0l0ck
Cheater

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Posts: 36

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:14 pm Post subject:

idk that guy looks pretty happy

Rin
Epic Kitty

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Posts: 2172

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:20 pm Post subject:

greatsage wrote:

Rin wrote:

I can't see arguments based on faith alone as strong ones. The point of faith is that you don't know and therefore you have these axioms in which you hold to be true and live by it.

It's not a bad way to live if the axioms provide you with some sense of happiness or wholeness... whatever it may be; it should provide you something of value. (We are judging axioms completely based on what the self values and not what the community values)

Axioms are the root of the problem when people argue science versus faith. Yes, science has axioms too; but some of them are based off of not just faith but also reason and supported by evidence.

I'm not saying that just because there's evidence that it's now a fact of the world; I am saying that with evidence, it stands on higher ground than theories without any evidence.

Now, we should probably agree to disagree what constitutes evidence... I'm not going to argue against the unexplained (miracles and whatnot). That'd be a pointless argument.

I, for one, believe in logic. If you can prove to me and show me without a doubt and be able to repeat it, that a Female Goddess clapped her hand and caused like a giant flying spaghetti monster to poop out a planet with living things... well damn... I guess I'm a follower of that religion.

Even though I may not not know exactly how the fuck that happened, and science may not be able to completely explain the event, well fuck it's there and I can't ignore truth.

For now, science is the more logical and more evidence abundant of the two sides. Those who argue for science have a lot more backing them. If a creationist wants to make his/her side more appealing, then instead of arguing their side, they should find more "proof" that a god exists... The Bible is not proof the same was as a textbook for introductory biology is not proof. The proof is the experiments that can be repeated that yield the same results.

"For now, science is the more logical and more evidence abundant of the two sides."
but there isn't sides when it comes to this. so the following point isn't a true point. but i think you said this anyways with your sentence
"the bible is not proof the same way as a textbook"
because this most certainly is the case, they are two completely different approaches to two completely different topics.
religion does not necessitate creationism as a foundation. science itself, and holding the scientific method as something that places something in higher standing, is ignoring the limitations of science and the scientific method. even things we've "proven" with "evidence", even "loads of evidence" in science, we have gone back to "prove" that it was incorrect.

i'd also take up issue with "believe in logic", that's like believing in a hammer...

it seems a lot of "atheists" are unwitting practitioners of scientism and love to make the same mistakes while practising the religion of scientism.

I didn't say prove to me, I said find evidence... also I didn't ignore the limitations of science.. I implied that the limitations of science exist and need to be acknowledged... Just because science can't explain something doesn't mean it isn't real. But at least science has evidence for if it is real or not... find me evidence for a God creating the universe.

Also I said a textbook is not proof... things written down by man is not proof. The proof is the actual occurrence of what is written down. History is written by the victors... this is so true... I cannot bring myself to believe all that is "documented". Just because it is written does not mean it is true. It's like the internet...

Yooo If logic implies Hammer and Hammer is the truth... I follow Hammerism
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finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?

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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject:

Rin wrote:

greatsage wrote:

Rin wrote:

I didn't say prove to me, I said find evidence... also I didn't ignore the limitations of science.. I implied that the limitations of science exist and need to be acknowledged... Just because science can't explain something doesn't mean it isn't real. But at least science has evidence for if it is real or not... find me evidence for a God creating the universe.

Also I said a textbook is not proof... things written down by man is not proof. The proof is the actual occurrence of what is written down. History is written by the victors... this is so true... I cannot bring myself to believe all that is "documented".

Yooo If logic implies Hammer and Hammer is the truth... I follow Hammerism

"also i didn't ignore the limitations of science"
indeed, this is i really enjoyed about your post.

"find me evidence for a god creating the universe"
religion has more to say than just that. i like to think of dna itself as a good indicator of some intelligence being behind things. that one microscopic strand can contain more than a million pages of information, in a way that fits our definition of "language". dna itself is miraculous. then you have it being described and our number of chromosomes being counted in genesis. i have not provided evidence but there is plenty out there for you to look at.

as for the last sentence, wot? logic does imply hammer in the way i used it, because they're both tools. you don't need to "believe" in a hammer to remove a nail with it.
the issue with sciencism is that it seems to insist that the best --or only-- way to discern truth is with the scientific method.
when there are serious philosophical issues even with the scientific method alone. a good philosopher can tell you why science is terrible at its job.

ControlAltDelete
Friendly Giant

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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject:

greatsage wrote:

konr wrote:

Tyler you're doing more harm than good by not even reading what he's saying correctly just stop lol

pic related. it's tyler.

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_________________

Shrooms wrote:

but sadly this is 1984 and western civilization the last ones standing at the top of titanic before it sinks...no matter what you do, they know

Rin
Epic Kitty

Reputation: 50

Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 2172

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject:

No... that last point was exactly that... I believe in the tools to discover the truth... The truth changes as we find out more things... You're right science is bad for that reason because it neglects... everything outside of its scope... Most people don't acknowledge that, but within their scope I do not argue with it's validity as long as there's enough evidence. _________________ Hi

finnegan waking up
How do I cheat?

Reputation: 13

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject:

Rin wrote:

No... that last point was exactly that... I believe in the tools to discover the truth... The truth changes as we find out more things... You're right science is bad for that reason because it neglects... everything outside of its scope... Most people don't acknowledge that, but within their scope I do not argue with it's validity as long as there's enough evidence.

hi everybody it's time to let everyone know how terrible of a person i am

if you're who i am thinking you are, i previously (in times' past) didn't like you at all (this is not relevant nor should you care or be bothered by it) and in fact might have thought you to be a dummy (this is what makes me a terrible person)
when in fact i think you've given some of the most enlightened and perspicacious posts i've had the good fortune to read.
you have restored some hope i have in humanity.

blessed by rin, holla

edit:
http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/big_bang_crunch.htm

Quote:

Big Bang & Big Crunch

Big Bang

The Christian Bible says that in the beginning God said "Let there be light" Genesis 1:3. However this turned out to be false. The universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent) and photons couldn't travel at all. After the Big Bang the universe was primarily Hydrogen, Helium and a tiny bit of Lithium. However when a gas is too hot it becomes ionized (loses the electrons) and becomes opaque (like today's smoke). In the beginning the universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent). After 380,000 years the universe cooled enough and it became transparent to visible light. For other wavelengths it was opaque for a billion years. So "Let there be light" turned out to be false. However the Quran correctly said that at the beginning it was SMOKE, that is, a hot non-transparent gas:

[Quran 41.11] Then He directed himself to the Heaven when it was SMOKE, and then said to it and to Earth: "Come willingly or by force" they said "We do come willingly"
How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that it was just smoke after the Big Bang?

The universe was created in a Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, is still expanding today, and billions of years from now it might recollapse by its own gravity with a Big Crunch (or continue expanding forever, Big Chill). Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that on the first day of creation, God made the heavens and the Earth meshed together, tight and compact (Big Bang), continues to expand it into the universe we know today and at the last day God will recompress it into its original state (Big Crunch). About the first day (Big Bang), Allah says:

[Quran 21.30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?
In the Quran the Heavens expanded from a single point.

Cosmologists just confirmed the existence of "Dark Energy", a mysterious repulsive force that acts in opposite to gravity. As the distance increases, the attractive gravitational force decreases but this mysterious repulsive force increases. This repulsive force is pushing galaxies apart; the greater the distance the greater the repulsion. Scientists today do not know what this "Dark Energy" is, but they know that it is causing the entire universe to expand at an increasing rate.

[Quran 51.47] And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.
The Quran told us about this expansion 1400 years before it was discovered.

There are three possibilities to how the universe could end: Big Crunch (Quran), Big Chill and the Big Rip. NASA recently ruled out the third scenario (No Big Rip; see also: Universe Today). This leaves the universe with only two possible endings: Big Chill or Big Crunch, depending on what this Dark Energy turns out to be. Learn more: Expansion of Universe in Quran. In the Quran God promises to make the Big Crunch:

[Quran 21.104] On the day when We will fold the heaven, like the folder compacts the books, and as We originated the first creation We shall return it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will deliver.
Here God promises to make this Big Crunch however not by gravity but rather by folding the Heavens like a book, that is, by the same mechanism He controls wormholes. This means that this Big Crunch can begin and end in a fraction of a second!

Also after this Big Crunch is over, God promises to recreate those heavens and Earth once more before Judgment Day:

[Quran 14.48] On the day when Earth will be swapped by another Earth and so will be the heavens; and all (creatures) will resurrect before the One Dominant God.
[Quran 36.81] Is He not, who created the heavens and the Earth, capable of creating others like them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Creator. His command, if He wanted a thing, is that He only says to it, "BE" and it becomes! So glorified is He in whose hands is the dominion of all things, and to Him you shall be returned.

Quote:

Our solar system is 4.57 billion years old. Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However the universe is 13.7 ± 0.2 bln years old. This places the age of Earth at one third the age of the universe (4.57 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3). Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that in God's Throne time Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old (2/6 = 1/3):

[Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne...

Those six days are on the Throne; so the frame of reference for creation is the Throne, not Earth.

[Quran 41.9] Say: "Is it that you deny Him [Allah] who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds."

[Quran 50.38] And we have created the Heavens and Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN in six days and We were not touched by fatigue.

All those days are on the Throne; the frame of reference for creation is still the Throne. When God says that He created the Heavens, Earth and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN (including you and me) in six days this means that He is referring to the period of existence. Earth has been in existence for 2 days (out of 6).

In God's Throne time, Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens, Earth and everything in between are 6 days old. This makes the age of Earth to be one third the age of the universe (2/6 = 1/3). Similarly in Earth time, the age of Earth is 4.567 billion years while the age of the universe is 13.7 billion years; this is also one third (4.57 bln/13.7 bln = 1/3).

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