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atom0s
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
Interpreted is not slow, it's even faster than native execution you ignorant.


Oh man. It just keeps getting better lol.

t328163 wrote:
Listen to me pussycat, developers are not lazy, they want quality products and cross platform mobility.


Like I already said above, porting CE to C# does not magically make it work on Linux, MacOS, and any other platform Microsoft decides to support the .NET framework for.
That is not at all how it works.

t328163 wrote:
microsoft established .net for a reason, they want to move all development platforms to it.


Wrong again, lol. If you take even 2 seconds to just Google anything you claim, you'll easily find the real info and answers. .NET was not developed to 'move all development platforms to it', not even close to the reason it was created. It was also not created to focus on cross-platform, at all. Microsoft originally never intended on it being cross-platform. It was a unified framework for Windows-specific development. Third-party users are who made it cross-platform (ie. the Mono project). Microsoft just recently embraced that and created .NET Core to focus more on cross-platform compatibility. (Along with making .NET open source.)

Again, if you just Google any of this, you'd actually find real facts instead of spewing nonsense like you keep doing.

t328163 wrote:
tell me something, do you prefer to write 100 lines of codes that could be reduced to 10 lines in .net?


Do you even understand how the .NET framework works? It is just a set of libraries/wrappers around other code. You are only reducing writing something because someone else already did it (in this case Microsoft). There are wrappers/libraries like this for every single programming language. It does not make C#, or any other language for that matter, better.

If you took even the smallest amount of time to actually understand what the .NET framework is and does, you'd see this point is entirely invalid.


You should honestly just stop spewing nonsense. Although it is a great laugh, it's also just sad.

If you want CE in C#, make it yourself. Then feel free to benchmark it. I can guarantee you it'll be slower.

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t328163
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atom0s, you seriously gotta stop thinking you're a godlike programmer and treat others with respect, especially those with a bachelor in software engineering. Don't forget you're a degreeless who is just a self taught who reads programming tutorials online 24/7. (You can't patronize others while your personal knowledge is gained by others lol)

Yes, i am aware that .net is a library/wrapper, no shit? (patronizing again)

Why would it be slower? .net has a powerful multithreading system using the ThreadPool class, especially the new TPL mechanism which is very effective exploiting all cores.

In object pascal you'd have to pull your own threadpool system which is something dirty and time consuming (heck, there's not even a single library in object pascal for thread pooling because there's no big community support for it)

edit: you have serious issues man, you will not get along in a software companies with other people patronizing like this. you gotta let go of your ego thinking you're the only one who knows software. You're always getting into confrontation with others, that's not a quality of an experienced programmer, just an assbag who likes to brag about his knowledge. You're too obsessed with software development.

edit2: just because i'm not spewing too much info, well here's a bit more to shout your ego - to an execution test and compare interpreter execution to native execution, you'll see a 1ms difference, big deal. (if at all)

and that's it! that's the only "performance loss" if that's what scares you.

oh, and the entire lifecycle of the app is also interpreted? trust me, it doesn't matter as much as the load of the app.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
atom0s, you seriously gotta stop thinking you're a godlike programmer and treat others with respect, especially those with a bachelor in software engineering.


Thanks for the expected response, delving to personal attacks because I pointed out the incorrect information in your posts. Also I don't care what kind of degree you claim to have, doesn't mean anything. Having a piece of paper saying your parents paid to put you through some courses doesn't deem you free to post nonsense online and not expect to be called out on it.


t328163 wrote:
Don't forget you're a degreeless who is just a self taught who reads programming tutorials online 24/7. (You can't patronize others while your personal knowledge is gained by others lol)


Ironic given that the person saying this paid to be taught lol. I don't need a degree to be a good developer. And that has proven itself countless times with my history of who I've worked with, what jobs I've had and what work I have currently. That piece of paper you want to cheerish so badly has never been a problem for me not having. Smile And no, I don't sit around reading tutorials 24/7. Even if I did, how is that an insult or a hurtful thing to say towards me? Just shows I am interested in actually continuing to learn and focus on my career path/choice lol.


t328163 wrote:
Yes, i am aware that .net is a library/wrapper, no shit? (patronizing again)

t328163 wrote:
Why would it be slower? .net has a powerful multithreading system using the ThreadPool class, especially the new TPL mechanism which is very effective exploiting all cores.

In object pascal you'd have to pull your own threadpool system which is something dirty and time consuming (heck, there's not even a single library in object pascal for thread pooling because there's no big community support for it)


You claim this then immediately in the next part of your post contradict yourself lol, great job.

Here, I'll help you out with what you seem to not be able to understand and do yourself. Here is how .NET implements their thread pooling in the base layer of the CLR, it is nothing more than a wrapper / manager aronud Win32 API 'CreateThread'.
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/9bd2787a9dd2aa4d2b7d4f72afebc3dbe896e896/src/vm/comthreadpool.h
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/9bd2787a9dd2aa4d2b7d4f72afebc3dbe896e896/src/vm/comthreadpool.cpp
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/04b8663d62e5f0903b1a90eb0f63009980e6a5c5/src/vm/win32threadpool.h
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/04b8663d62e5f0903b1a90eb0f63009980e6a5c5/src/vm/win32threadpool.cpp

"very effective exploiting all cores" really? It's called proper multi-threading by telling the thread which affinity group to be part of.
Something that is controled, again, by Win32 API. That API is called SetThreadGroupAffinity:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/processtopologyapi/nf-processtopologyapi-setthreadgroupaffinity

Then to claim that Lazarus/Pascal has nothing for this? Do you even check what you claim/say before you post? I'm going to assume no. Because it has thread pooling built into its own framework/library. You can find it in Lazarus' source code repo under: (since FPC 2.6.0)
https://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk/components/multithreadprocs/

And more specifically defined in: https://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk/components/multithreadprocs/mtprocs.pas

You can also read up more on it here under their Wiki:
https://wiki.freepascal.org/Parallel_procedures

As for others doing it themselves, here's an example of someone doing it:
http://pages.videotron.com/aminer/threadpool.htm


t328163 wrote:
Why would it be slower? .net has a powerful multithreading ...


For real...? The more you say things like this, the less I honestly believe you even have a degree lol.


t328163 wrote:
edit: you have serious issues man, you will not get along in a software companies with other people patronizing like this. you gotta let go of your ego thinking you're the only one who knows software. You're always getting into confrontation with others, that's not a quality of an experienced programmer, just an assbag who likes to brag about his knowledge. You're too obsessed with software development.


Thanks for the concern, but just judging by your attitude and posts, I can definitely say I'm older than you, and probably by a considerable amount. That said, I have had plenty of work with real / major companies and still do. I have no issues getting along with people that are actually serious in this field/industry vs. some random new comer that wants to have some hilarious opinion on why his preferred language of choice is the best and therefore every other language is bad.

I'm not bragging about myself in the slighest. I don't care what you know about me or think of me. My points are that you keep posting nonsense about Pascal simply because you hate it and because you did a course on C# and think it's the best language in the world. You don't understand how a lot of this stuff works under the hood and just make baseless assumptions about things that are all easily disproven. You keep shitting on Pascal simply because you don't know it. That's a 'you' problem. There is absolutely no reason to move CE to any other language. Pascal is more than capable of doing what CE requires, and is also able to do everything you keep complaining about.


t328163 wrote:
edit2: just because i'm not spewing too much info, well here's a bit more to shout your ego - to an execution test and compare interpreter execution to native execution, you'll see a 1ms difference, big deal. (if at all)

and that's it! that's the only "performance loss" if that's what scares you.

oh, and the entire lifecycle of the app is also interpreted? trust me, it doesn't matter as much as the load of the app.


Again, you don't understand the under-the-hood aspects of everything involved. I'm not going to keep arguing this with you, perhaps when you actually take time to learn more about how .NET works, how C# itself works, and so on, you'll have a better understand as to why your point of view is flawed and wrong.

The issue here is that you are taking things personally because people disagreed with you for wanting to make CE in C#. People pointed out that your view points are wrong, baseless and are nothing more than a childish cry because it's not in the language you prefer. Go back and look at all your recent posts regarding this. All you keep doing is shitting on a language because you don't know it.

I will say it again though, CE is open source. If you want it in C#, you're more than welcome to do it yourself.

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predprey
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
You sir, need to be hospitalized. Interpreted is not slow, it's even faster than native execution you ignorant.

Listen to me pussycat, developers are not lazy, they want quality products and cross platform mobility.


lol tell me this again when all your triple A games moves over to java or C#. for all that matters, of course they want cross platform mobility yea? one single codebase and release for all consoles, windows and linux? what couldn't be better right? maximize profits reduce manpower. i wonder why they use C/C++ instead of all developing using Unity engine, please enlighten me kind sir with a BSc. in Software Engineering.

With Deepest Respect For College CS Grads,
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny how atom0s is protecting Pascal but i have yet not seen him write anything with it, he just likes to argue with others because it makes him feel good with himself.

Also, he claims to have jobs without a degree, yes it's possible to get an entry level job but if you want to stay a junior developer all your life and not promote to higher positions such as senior engineer or architect, then no problem Smile

There's no demand for Pascal developers anymore. I have yet not to see a single job in ancient Pascal, the most underrated technology and pathetic language which lacks tons of features that the modern C# language has.
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predprey
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well at least his name is more recognised in the reversing community as compared to random new user mr.37372846. just because you have not seen or use his work before doesnít mean others havenít.

i would hate to hire or work with another software engineer that recommends c# for every project because thatís the only language his degree taught him lol. anyway CE wouldnít gain much from the cross platform builds interpreted languages provides. linux isnít as good as windows as a gaming platform. in fact moving across over to .net will just piss off the existing user base on windows i.e. me
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

predprey wrote:
well at least his name is more recognised in the reversing community as compared to random new user mr.37372846. just because you have not seen or use his work before doesnít mean others havenít.

i would hate to hire or work with another software engineer that recommends c# for every project because thatís the only language his degree taught him lol. anyway CE wouldnít gain much from the cross platform builds interpreted languages provides. linux isnít as good as windows as a gaming platform. in fact moving across over to .net will just piss off the existing user base on windows i.e. me


Look, i'm not saying C# is the best language all time. I'm just saying any OO language (especially C#) is preferred over Object Pascal, because its lack of features.

Now, the thing is, the reason i mostly recommend and prefer C# is because of language and framework features such as TPL, ThreadPool class, WPF which is the next generation for gui'd client development. it's good practice to implement mvvm within wpf for keeping the code-behind clean and not noisy. data binding reduces code thanks to XAML.

I'm telling you, i can imagine Dark Byte reducing over 100k lines of code by porting CE to C#.NET a....nd using WPF MVVM to accomplish that.
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predprey
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
predprey wrote:
well at least his name is more recognised in the reversing community as compared to random new user mr.37372846. just because you have not seen or use his work before doesnít mean others havenít.

i would hate to hire or work with another software engineer that recommends c# for every project because thatís the only language his degree taught him lol. anyway CE wouldnít gain much from the cross platform builds interpreted languages provides. linux isnít as good as windows as a gaming platform. in fact moving across over to .net will just piss off the existing user base on windows i.e. me


Look, i'm not saying C# is the best language all time. I'm just saying any OO language (especially C#) is preferred over Object Pascal, because its lack of features.

Now, the thing is, the reason i mostly recommend and prefer C# is because of language and framework features such as TPL, ThreadPool class, WPF which is the next generation for gui'd client development. it's good practice to implement mvvm within wpf for keeping the code-behind clean and not noisy. data binding reduces code thanks to XAML.

I'm telling you, i can imagine Dark Byte reducing over 100k lines of code by porting CE to C#.NET a....nd using WPF MVVM to accomplish that.


hmm... the thing is porting the entire codebase over is by no means a small effort just for fewer lines of code. even if the easier maintenance and upgrades in the future from the smaller code base doesnít seem to justify the workload especially if itís done only by DB. currently only DB himself and mgr.inz have been developing the codebase on GH. which is why atom0s suggested you to chip in or fork the codebase if you really think the effort would yield more benefits for the project than the cons that it may incur e.g. slower startup of the program. as to why itís in object pascal, CE was originally using delphi, but i think due to licensing issues the project switched over to freepascal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

predprey wrote:
t328163 wrote:
predprey wrote:
well at least his name is more recognised in the reversing community as compared to random new user mr.37372846. just because you have not seen or use his work before doesnít mean others havenít.

i would hate to hire or work with another software engineer that recommends c# for every project because thatís the only language his degree taught him lol. anyway CE wouldnít gain much from the cross platform builds interpreted languages provides. linux isnít as good as windows as a gaming platform. in fact moving across over to .net will just piss off the existing user base on windows i.e. me


Look, i'm not saying C# is the best language all time. I'm just saying any OO language (especially C#) is preferred over Object Pascal, because its lack of features.

Now, the thing is, the reason i mostly recommend and prefer C# is because of language and framework features such as TPL, ThreadPool class, WPF which is the next generation for gui'd client development. it's good practice to implement mvvm within wpf for keeping the code-behind clean and not noisy. data binding reduces code thanks to XAML.

I'm telling you, i can imagine Dark Byte reducing over 100k lines of code by porting CE to C#.NET a....nd using WPF MVVM to accomplish that.


hmm... the thing is porting the entire codebase over is by no means a small effort just for fewer lines of code. even if the easier maintenance and upgrades in the future from the smaller code base doesnít seem to justify the workload especially if itís done only by DB. currently only DB himself and mgr.inz have been developing the codebase on GH. which is why atom0s suggested you to chip in or fork the codebase if you really think the effort would yield more benefits for the project than the cons that it may incur e.g. slower startup of the program. as to why itís in object pascal, CE was originally using delphi, but i think due to licensing issues the project switched over to freepascal


>"but i think due to licensing issues the project switched over to freepascal"

That's an interesting pov, yet made the compilation process a bit rough on us lol.

Lazarus is a shitty ide. it's free for a reason, you know Delphi had barely good productive features and now downgrading to lazarus made it even worse lol.

Take into account that the switch from Delphi to Lazarus has made compiliation changes to the binaries... what i mean is that the way the PE is built is now even worse than Embarcadero's excellent compiler by using the Free Pascal compiler which is probably adding a bunch of useless garbage to the PE.
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predprey
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
predprey wrote:
t328163 wrote:
predprey wrote:
well at least his name is more recognised in the reversing community as compared to random new user mr.37372846. just because you have not seen or use his work before doesnít mean others havenít.

i would hate to hire or work with another software engineer that recommends c# for every project because thatís the only language his degree taught him lol. anyway CE wouldnít gain much from the cross platform builds interpreted languages provides. linux isnít as good as windows as a gaming platform. in fact moving across over to .net will just piss off the existing user base on windows i.e. me


Look, i'm not saying C# is the best language all time. I'm just saying any OO language (especially C#) is preferred over Object Pascal, because its lack of features.

Now, the thing is, the reason i mostly recommend and prefer C# is because of language and framework features such as TPL, ThreadPool class, WPF which is the next generation for gui'd client development. it's good practice to implement mvvm within wpf for keeping the code-behind clean and not noisy. data binding reduces code thanks to XAML.

I'm telling you, i can imagine Dark Byte reducing over 100k lines of code by porting CE to C#.NET a....nd using WPF MVVM to accomplish that.


hmm... the thing is porting the entire codebase over is by no means a small effort just for fewer lines of code. even if the easier maintenance and upgrades in the future from the smaller code base doesnít seem to justify the workload especially if itís done only by DB. currently only DB himself and mgr.inz have been developing the codebase on GH. which is why atom0s suggested you to chip in or fork the codebase if you really think the effort would yield more benefits for the project than the cons that it may incur e.g. slower startup of the program. as to why itís in object pascal, CE was originally using delphi, but i think due to licensing issues the project switched over to freepascal


>"but i think due to licensing issues the project switched over to freepascal"

That's an interesting pov, yet made the compilation process a bit rough on us lol.

Lazarus is a shitty ide. it's free for a reason, you know Delphi had barely good productive features and now downgrading to lazarus made it even worse lol.

Take into account that the switch from Delphi to Lazarus has made compiliation changes to the binaries... what i mean is that the way the PE is built is now even worse than Embarcadero's excellent compiler by using the Free Pascal compiler which is probably adding a bunch of useless garbage to the PE.


heh... itís what itís, beats having to pay to use CE i guess. delphi isnít a popular language nowadays but you got to take into account CE started long ago back when it wasnít such a ďdeadĒ language (apologies to software houses still maintaining or developing using delphi)
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t328163
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delphi is not a language, it's an ide. object pascal is the language used in Delphi and Lazarus, which of course, lacks features.
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predprey
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:
Delphi is not a language, it's an ide. object pascal is the language used in Delphi and Lazarus, which of course, lacks features.


good to know. iím not a delphi user, i just use it to refer to that entire borland/embacadero package.
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STN
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love delphi and this is despite having a degree in bachelor of CS Very Happy. We were taught everything from c/c++, asm , c#, .net even java. No pascal though.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STN wrote:
I love delphi and this is despite having a degree in bachelor of CS Very Happy. We were taught everything from c/c++, asm , c#, .net even java. No pascal though.


No institution teaches pascal but there's no demand for this poop language.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t328163 wrote:

No institution teaches pascal but there's no demand for this poop language.


This is just your opinion.

I switched over to Delphi when i learned VS didn't support inline asm in x64. Was surprised at the capabilities of delphi while also the high level language features it provided. Fell in love instantly.

I personally think the reason .net and similar interpreted languages are more popular is cause professional programmers are lazy and they have crap like deadlines to worry about with moronic bosses who demand results without understanding the whole process. Time is of essence and whatever gets the job done fastest is preferred.

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