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FBI really dropped the ball on Nicholas Cruz
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eheu
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
Emil wrote:
Truman: "I realize the tragic significance of the atomic bomb. Its production and its use were not lightly undertaken by this Government. But we knew that our enemies were on the search for it. We know now how close they were to finding it. And we knew the disaster, which would come to this Nation, and to all peace-loving nations, to all civilization, if they had found it first. That is why we felt compelled to undertake the long and uncertain and costly labor of discovery and production.**

We won the race of discovery against the Germans. Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."
this is fallacious propaganda. the funniest thing about america is that we allow our government to lie and misinform us, while staying misinformed ourselves. it comes back and bites people in the ass every time around, but no one learns from it nor cares. even people whom you think to be on your side, no matter what side you are on, is being fed lies from within and regurgitates it back and your own side eats it up. there is no winning side to history in the most broadest sense. its always the same shit for whatever "side" you want to be on. the only way to feel like you're actually winning is to put yourself in a bubble, which both sides equally do to feel like they are making some change, or facing some change, so that the world doesn't feel so hopeless.
The other way to feel like you're winning is realizing that you're living a super comfy life, and the reason you can be wearing feminine fashion and obsessing over asian women is because great military leaders made a judgment call, maybe not a very moral call, but nonetheless a call that has since allowed you to live in peace.
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TheyCallMeTim13
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emil wrote:
...The other way to feel like you're winning is realizing that you're living a super comfy life, and the reason you can be wearing feminine fashion and obsessing over asian women is because great military leaders made a judgment call, maybe not a very moral call, but nonetheless a call that has since allowed you to live in peace and prosper.


The crazy thing is, even after dropping Fat Man and Little Boy, the Japanese still wanted to fight to the end. It was only after convincing them we had hundreds more, that they even surrendered.

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HackOtaku
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The nukes were mainly dropped to let Russia know of the power we had, Japan was just any easy excuse at demonstration that also had the benefit of shortening the war.
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TheyCallMeTim13
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
The nukes were mainly dropped to let Russia know of the power we had, Japan was just any easy excuse at demonstration that also had the benefit of shortening the war.


Yeah, I think it was a bit of both, as well.
Plus with the way they had a suicide version of every thing, and comments like "If Tojo was so willing to kill them selves way not help the little fuckers out.", there was differently people that where just ready to see an end to it.

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Brolock
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emil wrote:
Brolock wrote:
Emil wrote:
Truman: "I realize the tragic significance of the atomic bomb. Its production and its use were not lightly undertaken by this Government. But we knew that our enemies were on the search for it. We know now how close they were to finding it. And we knew the disaster, which would come to this Nation, and to all peace-loving nations, to all civilization, if they had found it first. That is why we felt compelled to undertake the long and uncertain and costly labor of discovery and production.**

We won the race of discovery against the Germans. Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."
this is fallacious propaganda. the funniest thing about america is that we allow our government to lie and misinform us, while staying misinformed ourselves. it comes back and bites people in the ass every time around, but no one learns from it nor cares. even people whom you think to be on your side, no matter what side you are on, is being fed lies from within and regurgitates it back and your own side eats it up. there is no winning side to history in the most broadest sense. its always the same shit for whatever "side" you want to be on. the only way to feel like you're actually winning is to put yourself in a bubble, which both sides equally do to feel like they are making some change, or facing some change, so that the world doesn't feel so hopeless.
The other way to feel like you're winning is realizing that you're living a super comfy life, and the reason you can be wearing feminine fashion and obsessing over asian women is because great military leaders made a judgment call, maybe not a very moral call, but nonetheless a call that has since allowed you to live in peace.
saying you live a comfy life and not caring isn't winning, and I personally don't feel like im winning. if you want to be immoral and take shortcuts and feel the need to have guns, then so be it, we both reap the benefits of that, but don't feel like you're winning and defend any actions of the government. we can feel selfish all we want and live comfortably at other expense, its the main thing the US does, but like I was saying, dont eat up the governments shit and feel like you're on a "winning side", just know that when we become history we most certainly wont be seen as good guys and that we won any sort of large time scale battles.

it is already a sheltered point of view that the US is good in any way, everyone else is laughing at our gun laws and mass shootings (among many other things) while we're all here goin yeehaw fuckem give em more guns. and again, not antigun, just saying that there is no winning side, both sides arguments have flaws and are being fed misinformation, most likely from the government itself so that the govt. can benefit. clearly neither side has human freedom in mind, only want their own side pushed so they can feel good about it.

why not instead of quoting some ridiculous statement, defend the use in some more logical way and a way more empathetic to the enemy, who despite what the US says and the way our military is ran, are still human, which is our duty as citizens (not the duty of the military who needs to dissonance so that they can take out "targets") to recognize so as to prevent future war which is clearly in everyones true best interest (which is not to go to war to increase our own wealth and feed the citizens more consumerism)
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TheyCallMeTim13
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
Emil wrote:
Brolock wrote:
Emil wrote:
Truman: "I realize the tragic significance of the atomic bomb. Its production and its use were not lightly undertaken by this Government. But we knew that our enemies were on the search for it. We know now how close they were to finding it. And we knew the disaster, which would come to this Nation, and to all peace-loving nations, to all civilization, if they had found it first. That is why we felt compelled to undertake the long and uncertain and costly labor of discovery and production.**

We won the race of discovery against the Germans. Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans."
this is fallacious propaganda. the funniest thing about america is that we allow our government to lie and misinform us, while staying misinformed ourselves. it comes back and bites people in the ass every time around, but no one learns from it nor cares. even people whom you think to be on your side, no matter what side you are on, is being fed lies from within and regurgitates it back and your own side eats it up. there is no winning side to history in the most broadest sense. its always the same shit for whatever "side" you want to be on. the only way to feel like you're actually winning is to put yourself in a bubble, which both sides equally do to feel like they are making some change, or facing some change, so that the world doesn't feel so hopeless.
The other way to feel like you're winning is realizing that you're living a super comfy life, and the reason you can be wearing feminine fashion and obsessing over asian women is because great military leaders made a judgment call, maybe not a very moral call, but nonetheless a call that has since allowed you to live in peace.
saying you live a comfy life and not caring isn't winning, and I personally don't feel like im winning. if you want to be immoral and take shortcuts and feel the need to have guns, then so be it, we both reap the benefits of that, but don't feel like you're winning and defend any actions of the government. we can feel selfish all we want and live comfortably at other expense, its the main thing the US does, but like I was saying, dont eat up the governments shit and feel like you're on a "winning side", just know that when we become history we most certainly wont be seen as good guys and that we won any sort of large time scale battles.

it is already a sheltered point of view that the US is good in any way, everyone else is laughing at our gun laws and mass shootings (among many other things) while we're all here goin yeehaw fuckem give em more guns. and again, not antigun, just saying that there is no winning side, both sides arguments have flaws and are being fed misinformation, most likely from the government itself so that the govt. can benefit. clearly neither side has human freedom in mind, only want their own side pushed so they can feel good about it.

why not instead of quoting some ridiculous statement, defend the use in some more logical way and a way more empathetic to the enemy, who despite what the US says and the way our military is ran, are still human, which is our duty as citizens (not the duty of the military who needs to dissonance so that they can take out "targets") to recognize so as to prevent future war which is clearly in everyones true best interest (which is not to go to war to increase our own wealth and feed the citizens more consumerism)


Speaking of misinformation, What rank and division were you in, to know so much about how the military works, and what soldiers do? What wars did you fight in?

And If the Government is getting to bad, then pick up a gun and win your freedom, this happens all over the world all the time. But you may find your self all alone, with some well trained and really cool dudes, with you in their cross-hairs.

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Brolock
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when did i state "so much" knowledge of the military? its common knowledge that the military uses terms like target, tango, etc to make killing them easier. and again wasn't even criticizing the military in that sentence. you are trying to pick a side and make yourself seem right by making up bullshit and putting words in my mouth.

others are the ones that picks up guns, and yet think the government is so great. which is ironic considering the point of the 2nd amendment and US history. i am hoping others see the government being bad enough to want their freedom. no reason to be a martyr when no one else cares yet. as long as people enjoy being spied on and watching tv they will probably never care because of that previously mentioned "winning" and "comfort" factor (which honestly no one should feel REALLY comfortable considering that HAPPENINGS could be at any time)
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TheyCallMeTim13
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
when did i state "so much" knowledge of the military? its common knowledge that the military uses terms like target, tango, ...


So the English word target is not ok to use, and then NATO's word for T is no good as well I guess. Damn NATO will need to redo the alpha phonetic alphabet so you feel like it's more human, and not care about the words being understood by all nationalities. So what word should it be?


Brolock wrote:
...others are the ones that picks up guns, and yet think the government is so great. which is ironic considering the point of the 2nd amendment and US history...


Really can't argue with this one. You do have a good point.


EDIT:
Really to me the whole problem boils down to bad/little education. Their really is a bad view that questioning the government or commanding officers is a bad thing, when I was thought that it's the most American thing you can do. But this really has nothing to do with the military, we have idiots in congress and the white house. It's just a numbers thing at that point, too many American idiots.

Just a great way of thinking, and it was a must for the Army:
"I may not agree with what you have to say; but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."

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Brolock
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

I specifically stated "not the duty of the military who needs to dissonance", i wasnt being sarcastic here, it is necessary thing, I do not want a military man in the line of fire questioning how a terrorist "feels", thats not their duty. the words are fine for the military to use, and doesn't need to be changed to be more human for military purposes. for citizens, there is no reason not to see the other side as human. I also restated in my other reply that I am not criticizing the military at all.

I was also going to post that I think the biggest issue is education. sees like once we actually talked it out and made our points we actually came to agree with one another despite what may have been seen as being "on opposite sides". guns themselves cannot be the issue, if society was better then everyone having a gun wouldn't matter, just like if society was better then no one having a gun wouldn't matter.

which all this does come back to OPs post, either the govt. doesn't care, is dumb, or is allowing things like this to happen for their gain or to distract us from something else (everyone loves watching gun debate news and these stupid teenagers that hacko posted in another thread).
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TheyCallMeTim13
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Brolock
To me, banning any thing really just makes regular people criminals. Example, in Afghanistan, the Afghan National Arm banned motor cycles. So a Yamaha fan like my self is now looked at as Taliban/insurgent just for riding a dirt bike. And the same thing happened here with "the Prohibition" and the "War on drugs", despite the fact that war in the borders of the US with out marshal law being formal declared is unconstitutional. It just seems like banning doesn't work to me, It's better to educate (as we seem to agree). I do think there are people in the world that understand this and use it against others, the Taliban/ISIL/ISIS simply being the current Nazis in a way. And the Taliban/ISIL/ISIS and banning; Hell, even talking about evolution is punishable by death, and a woman out side with out a man, well "It's not good" is about all I can say without exploding. And don't get me started on Catholics (to which I was raised) and banning (I had to tell my Catholic mother I was ejected from the Vatican for asking a few questions and I'm pretty sure I heard "bando" and "förbud", Dick Heads). I'll admit that America has a long history of banning; but even as you seemed to point out, we have plenty of history that should never be repeated.

And guns specifically, right now the Afghan National Arm is really just trying to take back their homes and bring "law in lawless lands", just as our forefathers did. And most of the guns I own have more sentimental value really, one hasn't been fired in 80 some odd years. I don't even really trust it at this point, but I refuse to disable it; because I don't want to piss off some dead guy I'm related to (which is a little insane). So all I really ask, is when looking at a gun, please keep in mind. Where some just see a tool for killing; others see a tool for hunting (say in an area where there are no super markets), a tool of freedom, a tool that any one can use to halt any tyrannical/extremist ideology from ending their entire culture, or even just a symbol that stands with Old Glory folded under glass.

So then generally the conversation goes to gun control, which I just think is a contradiction in it self. Controlling that which by it's very nature stands for being/remaining uncontrolled/unrestricted. It's just, I hear "gun control" and I think "well that's setup to fail". But don't get me wrong, just passing out guns to any crazy person is insane, and as luck would have it not every one has the decency to look crazy like old Charles did. So the conversation most continue, but again it will always be more than just a gun that we are talking about. It will always include history, heritage, freedom, and justice; for some that speak. And how to deal with that is definitely a bit of a conundrum, the first one to figure that out will probably make millions with a book.

But I also think that many American should really understand that we are a country of worriers and scholars. And both support one another in all sorts of ways. And more so understand what that really means, to have been founded by people that were ready to be martyrs for an ideology. But again that is why the conversation most always continue, else we lose the part of US that is the scholars.

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