Cheat Engine Forum Index Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Does anyone here actually think socialism would work?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> Random spam
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 73

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 244

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Does anyone here actually think socialism would work? Reply with quote

Some of my friends are die-hard socialists who think capitalism is inherently evil. Even though I've tried to tell them that socialism/communism sounds good on paper, but doesn't work, they still seem insistent that it's the way of the future. What are the thoughts about it here?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
konr
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 127

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1539

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It hasn't worked everywhere it's been tried so far and they have been vastly different environments
_________________
“If a man is not a Socialist at 20 he has no heart, but if he remains one at 30 he has no head.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Dark Byte
Site Admin
Reputation: 342

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 20068
Location: The netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

socialism can only work when people get rewarded based on the amount/importance of their work
_________________
Do not ask me about online cheats. I don't know any and wont help finding them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
konr
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 127

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1539

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link

_________________
“If a man is not a Socialist at 20 he has no heart, but if he remains one at 30 he has no head.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 73

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 244

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark Byte wrote:
socialism can only work when people get rewarded based on the amount/importance of their work
The reward is the joy you feel from knowing you are making something that someone needs, you don't need money or anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dark Byte
Site Admin
Reputation: 342

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 20068
Location: The netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HackOtaku wrote:
Dark Byte wrote:
socialism can only work when people get rewarded based on the amount/importance of their work
The reward is the joy you feel from knowing you are making something that someone needs, you don't need money or anything.

people don't work like that. They will always compare their work to others. And if their work is equally appreciated as the guy who breaks everything he touches, it will severely diminish morale.
Sure, you can sent the guy that's bad at his job to a work/death camp where no one will miss him, but that has proven to not work so well.

for socialism to work people need to get a form of reward. perhaps not money, but perhaps appreciation
e. g give people 'appreciation points' that are visible for everyone, but not transferable (that's the only difference between functional socialism and capitalism)

though i guess a high apreciation level could give those people special benefits like a higher chance for selection to breed. That would likely also stimilate the lower levels to do work harder

_________________
Do not ask me about online cheats. I don't know any and wont help finding them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Channel GannoK
pffrt
Reputation: 125

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

Pure socialism does not work. You need a hybrid capitalis/socialist state.

You don't want the government in charge of making couches and cars. You also don't want private corporations regulating what is considered edible and ok to eat and put into our food in super markets etc.

You pick and choose IN A SMART WAY(very hard for republicans) which elements of government work by design and evidence, and implement them, and eliminate the ones that don't work(or properly as intended, such as the DEA).

This concept isn't that complex.

_________________

Brolock wrote:
just because something is personally affecting you doesn't make it important
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sbryzl
Advanced Cheater
Reputation: 3

Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Channel GannoK wrote:
Pure socialism does not work. You need a hybrid capitalis/socialist state.


This is true. The United States is a combination of capitalism and socialism. Most of what we pay in taxes is due to socialism. It pays for military and police, fire and ems, medicare and medicaid, social security, postal service, roads and bridges, it pays for my trash and a portion of other utilities and lots of things. My tax dollars also go to some other things however like paying for Donald Trump to go golfing. But for the most part I like the socialism that I have and I don't think I would like to live somewhere that I depend on people I couldn't vote for to pay for the services necessary to maintain a civil society.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adnihil
Master Cheater
Reputation: 61

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe capitalism works, not for humanity and not for the environment. Capitalism causes poverty, criminality, and division. People steal, kill, and do all other sorts of horrible things for money. There are more than enough resources to ensure a good life (education, health, safety, even luxury) for everyone, yet instead they're literally getting wasted because more money can be made that way. Money that on its turn is being wasted by just sitting in a bank account and not being used for anything while it could be used to help others (well yeah, it's being used by the banks to make more money and one could argue that the taxes they have to pay, pay for roads and social welfare etc, but this isn't a very efficient way of helping others).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Channel GannoK
pffrt
Reputation: 125

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adnihil wrote:
I don't believe capitalism works, not for humanity and not for the environment. Capitalism causes poverty, criminality, and division. People steal, kill, and do all other sorts of horrible things for money. There are more than enough resources to ensure a good life (education, health, safety, even luxury) for everyone, yet instead they're literally getting wasted because more money can be made that way. Money that on its turn is being wasted by just sitting in a bank account and not being used for anything while it could be used to help others (well yeah, it's being used by the banks to make more money and one could argue that the taxes they have to pay, pay for roads and social welfare etc, but this isn't a very efficient way of helping others).

capitalism won the space race, made your phones, and the pencil.

_________________

Brolock wrote:
just because something is personally affecting you doesn't make it important
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 53

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Channel GannoK wrote:
Adnihil wrote:
I don't believe capitalism works, not for humanity and not for the environment. Capitalism causes poverty, criminality, and division. People steal, kill, and do all other sorts of horrible things for money. There are more than enough resources to ensure a good life (education, health, safety, even luxury) for everyone, yet instead they're literally getting wasted because more money can be made that way. Money that on its turn is being wasted by just sitting in a bank account and not being used for anything while it could be used to help others (well yeah, it's being used by the banks to make more money and one could argue that the taxes they have to pay, pay for roads and social welfare etc, but this isn't a very efficient way of helping others).

capitalism won the space race, made your phones, and the pencil.
yet one could still argue that we're no better than before those things, that society hasn't really progressed in any way, and that making a bunch of babies and keeping them alive and raising the total human population doesn't actually account for us being "successful"

as for my own opinion: there is nothing inherently evil about Capitalism, and all your qualms are ethical issues, not economic/political. And to add to that, most peoples issues nowadays are about the 1% who have ridiculous amounts of money, which could be fixed while still incentivizing the smarter people to rise to the top.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alt
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 2

Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

Adnihil wrote:
I don't believe capitalism works, not for humanity and not for the environment. Capitalism causes poverty, criminality, and division. People steal, kill, and do all other sorts of horrible things for money. There are more than enough resources to ensure a good life (education, health, safety, even luxury) for everyone, yet instead they're literally getting wasted because more money can be made that way. Money that on its turn is being wasted by just sitting in a bank account and not being used for anything while it could be used to help others (well yeah, it's being used by the banks to make more money and one could argue that the taxes they have to pay, pay for roads and social welfare etc, but this isn't a very efficient way of helping others).


You think capitalism causes poverty? It was the widespread adoption of capitalism that has brought the world's poverty level down dramatically. Before capitalism, only the aristrocrats of many countries got to live out of poverty. The serfs were held on tight chains and personal property was restricted. The vast majority of people were poor and no middle class really existed. It was the advent of capitalism that brought up the rise of the middle class in the first place. Without free enterprise and the rights to property, no middle class could possibly have formed.

Capitalism is what allowed the USA to defeat the Soviet Union in the Cold War by bankrupting the Soviets. Their economic structure couldn't handle the pressure of the Cold War's arms race and the space race, which acted as the final nail in the coffin of the Soviet Regime. Without Capitalism, the USA wouldn't have been able to catapult to power after the second world war to begin with. Free enterprise and American exceptionalism were intimately linked to the economic explosion that followed WWII.

Yes capitalism has it's flaws. Consumerism leads towards the degeneration of cultural values at a rapid pace if left unchecked, and consumerism is championed by capitalism. That's the most glaring flaw of capitalism. It's knack at distributing resources towards the most amount of people, compared to pretty much any other economic structure, is in no way a flaw.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Csimbi
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
Reputation: 67

Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 1956

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need the right conditions and the right people for it to work.
It never worked in Hungary but it actually works very well in Finland!
Go figure!


Channel GannoK wrote:
capitalism won the space race, made your phones, and the pencil.

Haha, exactly what a capitalist would say.
Unfortunately, only the first one of those is true, lol
Though to be honest, I am beginning to doubt that, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alt
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 2

Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Csimbi wrote:
You need the right conditions and the right people for it to work.
It never worked in Hungary but it actually works very well in Finland!
Go figure!


Channel GannoK wrote:
capitalism won the space race, made your phones, and the pencil.

Haha, exactly what a capitalist would say.
Unfortunately, only the first one of those is true, lol
Though to be honest, I am beginning to doubt that, too.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Finland isn't a socialist country. The means of production are all owned by the people. Property rights are enforced and free enterprise is allowed. Finland is actually a capitalist welfare state, if you dig deeper into the actual structure of Finland. While the Nordic systems of the early 2000s were substantially closer to socialism than anything else in the West, they were never actually socialist as a core component of socialism is state seizure of the means of production. In Finland there is still social mobility and the ability to produce value through labor. In a socialist country those things disappear from the common man, and instead are funneled into the hands of the elite that control that nation. Just look to Venezuela today. A country that was once touted as the shining light of the socialist dream. What is it today?

Everyone not absorbed by the socialist pipe dream knew what would inevitably happen to Venezuela, and I've personally been saying for years that this would happen. As soon as the price of oil took a hit, Venezuela crumbled. They were entirely propped up by the oil industry, and even that was bleeding away from them due to the nationalization of the industry. Now Maduro is enforcing laws that prevent people from selling certain kinds of bread because of the rampant starvation and riots happening due to the poverty their socialist waste has caused. With hindsight the travesty of Venezuela becomes clear to everyone, except those still blinded by the promise of free shit and happy feelings for all.

Everywhere "true socialism" goes, poverty and death follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adnihil
Master Cheater
Reputation: 61

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alt wrote:
Adnihil wrote:
I don't believe capitalism works, not for humanity and not for the environment. Capitalism causes poverty, criminality, and division. People steal, kill, and do all other sorts of horrible things for money. There are more than enough resources to ensure a good life (education, health, safety, even luxury) for everyone, yet instead they're literally getting wasted because more money can be made that way. Money that on its turn is being wasted by just sitting in a bank account and not being used for anything while it could be used to help others (well yeah, it's being used by the banks to make more money and one could argue that the taxes they have to pay, pay for roads and social welfare etc, but this isn't a very efficient way of helping others).


You think capitalism causes poverty? It was the widespread adoption of capitalism that has brought the world's poverty level down dramatically. Before capitalism, only the aristrocrats of many countries got to live out of poverty. The serfs were held on tight chains and personal property was restricted. The vast majority of people were poor and no middle class really existed. It was the advent of capitalism that brought up the rise of the middle class in the first place. Without free enterprise and the rights to property, no middle class could possibly have formed.

Capitalism is what allowed the USA to defeat the Soviet Union in the Cold War by bankrupting the Soviets. Their economic structure couldn't handle the pressure of the Cold War's arms race and the space race, which acted as the final nail in the coffin of the Soviet Regime. Without Capitalism, the USA wouldn't have been able to catapult to power after the second world war to begin with. Free enterprise and American exceptionalism were intimately linked to the economic explosion that followed WWII.
That's not very relevant though, is it? Just because it was worse before, or because it could be worse, doesn't mean it's good now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> Random spam All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

CE Wiki   IRC (#CEF)   Twitter
Third party websites