Cheat Engine Forum Index Cheat Engine
The Official Site of Cheat Engine
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Brolock, how are you and God these days?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> Random spam
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 69

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Brolock, how are you and God these days? Reply with quote

Since you seem to be pretty into philosophy, I remembered a quote I had read somewhere

Quote:
A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion


Has you reading into philosphy turned you back towards a religion of sorts? (I assume you are/were atheist since that's the general vibe here) Or are you still an unbeliever?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unbeliever. favorite philosopher is Albert Camus. famous for his shit on how religion is philosophical suicide. i also like Nietzsche, with his whole "God is dead" stuff and how society must reconcile with that

the quote you posted is from the 1500s, and camus and nietzsche are more modern, allowing them to be in the social position to deny religion and not be killed (or whatever less radical things, eg ostracized from society) because of it.

i wont pretend like i know a lot about these things, but so far nothing has made me think of turning to religion in the slightest way. Camus seemed just like a cool guy that I can relate to, and his reasoning with the absurd, the notion that life has no meaning that we could obtain vs us constantly seeking meaning, seems to have affected me the most out of all philosophy and religious things ive heard. Camus is also pretty accessible imo and just a good writer. im still unconvinced of existentialism being more in favor than absurdism, but ive never actually read any Sartre, only The ehtics of ambiguity by his wife Beauvoir.

id really suggest reading Camus' The Stranger and The Myth of Sisyphus (book comes with other writings)
Quote:
The final chapter compares the absurdity of man's life with the situation of Sisyphus, a figure of Greek mythology who was condemned to repeat forever the same meaningless task of pushing a boulder up a mountain, only to see it roll down again. The essay concludes, "The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 69

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
unbeliever. favorite philosopher is Albert Camus. famous for his shit on how religion is philosophical suicide. i also like Nietzsche, with his whole "God is dead" stuff and how society must reconcile with that

the quote you posted is from the 1500s, and camus and nietzsche are more modern, allowing them to be in the social position to deny religion and not be killed (or whatever less radical things, eg ostracized from society) because of it.

i wont pretend like i know a lot about these things, but so far nothing has made me think of turning to religion in the slightest way. Camus seemed just like a cool guy that I can relate to, and his reasoning with the absurd, the notion that life has no meaning that we could obtain vs us constantly seeking meaning, seems to have affected me the most out of all philosophy and religious things ive heard. Camus is also pretty accessible imo and just a good writer. im still unconvinced of existentialism being more in favor than absurdism, but ive never actually read any Sartre, only The ehtics of ambiguity by his wife Beauvoir.

id really suggest reading Camus' The Stranger and The Myth of Sisyphus (book comes with other writings)
Quote:
The final chapter compares the absurdity of man's life with the situation of Sisyphus, a figure of Greek mythology who was condemned to repeat forever the same meaningless task of pushing a boulder up a mountain, only to see it roll down again. The essay concludes, "The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
Yeah, I definitely need to read Camus. I haven't read any philosophical texts, only dabbled with like youtube videos and the like about them, but I am familiar with absurdism and the "absurd hero". Definitely resonates, especially the seeking a higher purpose in a purposeless world.

By the way, do you think "God is dead" refers to the idea that since science has uncovered so much, it isn't necessary to use "God" as a way to explain anything, since we've broken it all down, or does it refer to the idea the god and religion were losing their place as the cornerstone of family life?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

absurdism doesnt seek a higher purpose in a purposeless world, but instead recognizes the purposelessness as a driving force, a rebellion, but there is no higher purpose, eg humans have no innate function or purpose, for us to aim for. existentialism would say that we create our own purposes in the form of projects we aim to complete (basic things like our security and well being, up to becoming an artist if you want) but that there is nothing innate about being human either, except that we are completely free in the world.

http://www.philosophy-index.com/existentialism/absurd.php

god is dead doesn't have to be used for science, and nietzsche would be totally against the notion that we know so many things and thus don't need to explain it magically, this is more of a spiritual/purpose driven notion. heres a couple nietzsche quotes

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

"What then is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms -- in short, a sum of human relations, which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins."

religion was no longer being needed for morality, and we can see this through work of other philosophers before him that explored similar ideas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 69

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
absurdism doesnt seek a higher purpose in a purposeless world, but instead recognizes the purposelessness as a driving force, a rebellion, but there is no higher purpose, eg humans have no innate function or purpose, for us to aim for. existentialism would say that we create our own purposes in the form of projects we aim to complete (basic things like our security and well being, up to becoming an artist if you want) but that there is nothing innate about being human either, except that we are completely free in the world.

http://www.philosophy-index.com/existentialism/absurd.php

god is dead doesn't have to be used for science, and nietzsche would be totally against the notion that we know so many things and thus don't need to explain it magically, this is more of a spiritual/purpose driven notion. heres a couple nietzsche quotes

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

"What then is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms -- in short, a sum of human relations, which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins."

religion was no longer being needed for morality, and we can see this through work of other philosophers before him that explored similar ideas


Well, no, absurdism doesn't seek a purpose, but rather, I think humans are naturally drawn to want to find a higher purpose for themselves, despite the fact that there isn't one for them. (Thus, the absurdity.) That's at least how I had come to understand it from my limited knowledge of it, but I still have yet to read the books.

I see what you are saying about Nietzsche though. I was never totally clear on what was meant by God is dead, and thought it has meant different things at different times.

Oh
Quote:
The absurd is born out of this confrontation between the human need and the unreasonable silence of the world.
From the link you gave me, so I was close to the idea of it all. I'll definitely need to read more though, probably starting with The Stranger.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

camus would say you will never and can never know this higher purpose. it doenst matter if god exists, because you cannot know him and cannot be certain of its existance, you have to take a leap of faith. there are reasons this is bad (stated in the myth of sisyphus). instead you must always acknowledge that you will never come to this higher purpose, you will never know it, but be sure to not let this stop you in any way, eg dont kill yourself, and dont turn to religion to hide from this.

camus assumes at the start of The Myth of Sisyphus that you are already past the idea that humans have a higher purpose, and are now wondering what the point to life is at all, and whether we shouldn't all just kill ourselves because whats the fucking point then. the answer is no, as stated in last paragraph
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greatsage
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 10

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aboutislam net/science/faith-science/analyzing-statuses-brain-prayers/

The images above show the brain activity of Franciscan Nurse, who has prayed to God daily for 34 years, before and after prayer. They are derived from a SPECT scan, a nuclear imaging test, which uses radioactive substances and a special camera to observe how the organs work by creating 3D images.
SPECT, single photon emission computed tomography (SPECT), allows the measurement of blood flow. The more blood flow a brain area has, the more active it is (red > yellow > green > blue > black).
After the prayer scan, frontal lobe of the nurse, along with the language center, shows an elevated activity level. The increased activity of the frontal lobe, which is responsible for attention and conversation, indicates that when an individual prays, they are engaging in a conversation with God which resembles a physical conversation.
In other words, just by observing the scans, one can easily confuse that speaking to God is the same as speaking to an individual in the physical world. The two conversations, per the SPECT scans, are indistinguishable.
Likewise, the image on the right also shows a decreased activity of the part of the brain responsible for orientation, located in the parietal lobes.
According to Dr. Newberg’s, this is because complete concentration in the brain during prayer and meditation blocks sensory and cognitive input from the outside, and hence leads to a decreased activity of the orientation area.

The above images, taken before and after an atheist meditates and contemplates on the existence of God, do not show the same level of activity of the frontal cortex of the brain. There is no relative difference between the brain scan taken prior to meditation and afterwards.
Therefore, this study wants to prove that, for individuals who do not believe in God, meditation does not provide the same differences and increase in activity level as does for the believer. This is because to the atheist, God is unimaginable.
When believers describe their feelings with God, their descriptions are not a mere figment of their imagination, they are physical realities. Therefore, to those who claim that God is not real and only exists in the brain, it is the brain which crystallizes reality.
As science and technology progress, they seem to be solidifying the words of God. Allah says in the Qur’an that this holy book was sent down as mercy to the worlds, for those who take heed (Surat Al-Anbiya’ 21:107).
In conclusion, Dr. Andrew Newberg said, “Our brains are set up in such a way that God and religion become among the most powerful tools for helping the brain do its thing—self-maintenance and self-transcendence. Unless there is a fundamental change in how our brain works, God will be around for a very long time.”
Indeed as Allah mentions to us in the Holy Qur’an, “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?” (Surat Fussilat 41:53).

_________________
Imam al-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Skype: RivalSpade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that study could easily be flipped. a religious person should instead try to contemplate the non-existence of god, and how they would then live their life, and instead of having the atheist mediate on the existence of god, have them engage in a socractic dialogue with themselves about what is knowledge and what can we know

but regardless, all that study shows is that you can increase activity in the part of the brain responsible for conversation by pretending to talk to someone in your mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HackOtaku
I posted the 500000th topic
Reputation: 69

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
camus would say you will never and can never know this higher purpose. it doenst matter if god exists, because you cannot know him and cannot be certain of its existance, you have to take a leap of faith. there are reasons this is bad (stated in the myth of sisyphus). instead you must always acknowledge that you will never come to this higher purpose, you will never know it, but be sure to not let this stop you in any way, eg dont kill yourself, and dont turn to religion to hide from this.

camus assumes at the start of The Myth of Sisyphus that you are already past the idea that humans have a higher purpose, and are now wondering what the point to life is at all, and whether we shouldn't all just kill ourselves because whats the fucking point then. the answer is no, as stated in last paragraph
Very interesting. I will definitely have to look more into that instead of just having superficial knowledge of it, because I feel where it's coming from. I'll might actually start with the myth, but maybe the stranger still. (That's the one that starts with "mother died today, or was it yesterday? I don't remember.", right?) This one has been on my reading list for a bit because I think it's supposed to deal with the sort of feeling of listlessness that I think everyone goes through. Definitely an interest of mine. What do you recommend of Nietzsche?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah thats where that quotes from

for nietzsche i only read thus spoke zarathustra and The Birth of Tragedy, but they were honestly hard to get through (despite the latter being really short) and i know more about his stuff by reading/hearing from other sources that reference him (theres an hour long documentary on youtube you can check out). the birth of tragedy might not be too bad to start with though and it was his earliest major work and isn't strictly philosophy, there was some interesting things to take away from it. thus spoke zraathustra is long and abstract, not very straight forward but still interesting, requires more than one reading for sure
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greatsage
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 10

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
that study could easily be flipped. a religious person should instead try to contemplate the non-existence of god, and how they would then live their life, and instead of having the atheist mediate on the existence of god, have them engage in a socractic dialogue with themselves about what is knowledge and what can we know

but regardless, all that study shows is that you can increase activity in the part of the brain responsible for conversation by pretending to talk to someone in your mind.


idk, i have seen plenty of theists who exhibit great memory recall.
look at the number of people who can recall the whole qur'an.
they pray often. the same areas have more blood flow. it would only make sense that they're more functional and allow for one to have increased capacity for something like recalling the entire qur'an.

hindus too, do the same thing.
unfortunately, the fact is that there are parts of your brain you won't be able to access without faith. this has been well established in science by many studies.

_________________
Imam al-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Skype: RivalSpade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if science can explain religious phenomena in the brain, then this implies that religious phenomena is predictable, can be reproduced, and is simple enough for us to understand. scientific explanations for religious things would actually hurt your case. you can approximate and get closer to the truth (pick a word besides truth if you want) but you will have a much harder time knowing the concept of truth, what we can know as true, and whether truth has an end.

knowing a scientific explanation of faith means we've come far enough to be able to read what we think of as faith in our mind, it doesn't solve the problem of relating what is knowable in the outside world and what we can "really" know in our mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurophilosophy

but before you reply, lets distinguish what we're arguing: practical things in relation to our well being and life in general (eg are we going to get something meaningful out of being theist vs athiest that can be measured by science) or something else?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greatsage
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 10

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you read something I didn't type? I never said science can grasp religious phenomenon or accurately describe and explain faith.

you'll find that no civilisation quite performed what the Islamic civilization accomplished via monotheism. that's because arrogance leads to turning a blind eye to this subject. presume all you want

_________________
Imam al-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Skype: RivalSpade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Brolock
Cheater
Reputation: 42

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you said it at the ending sentence of your quote + the one you added

"In conclusion, Dr. Andrew Newberg said, “Our brains are set up in such a way that God and religion become among the most powerful tools for helping the brain do its thing—self-maintenance and self-transcendence. Unless there is a fundamental change in how our brain works, God will be around for a very long time.”
Indeed as Allah mentions to us in the Holy Qur’an, “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?” (Surat Fussilat 41:53)."

>we will show them our signs
this is the evidence youre pointing to in your science quote
>until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth
this is my counter point that you cannot know what "truth" is and so your scientific explanation of the phenomenon is pointless

but maybe it is possible I'm reading into it. this is because religious language isn't rigorous enough to actually counter-object to. you really do have to make a leap of faith. this means that it is actually you who is turning a blind eye. you may presume all you want as well, but you'll find that even despite your now religious views you have been influenced by people who turned against religion after creating rigorous philosophy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greatsage
How do I cheat?
Reputation: 10

Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
you said it at the ending sentence of your quote + the one you added

"In conclusion, Dr. Andrew Newberg said, “Our brains are set up in such a way that God and religion become among the most powerful tools for helping the brain do its thing—self-maintenance and self-transcendence. Unless there is a fundamental change in how our brain works, God will be around for a very long time.”
Indeed as Allah mentions to us in the Holy Qur’an, “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?” (Surat Fussilat 41:53)."

>we will show them our signs
this is the evidence youre pointing to in your science quote
>until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth
this is my counter point that you cannot know what "truth" is and so your scientific explanation of the phenomenon is pointless

but maybe it is possible I'm reading into it. this is because religious language isn't rigorous enough to actually counter-object to. you really do have to make a leap of faith. this means that it is actually you who is turning a blind eye. you may presume all you want as well, but you'll find that even despite your now religious views you have been influenced by people who turned against religion after creating rigorous philosophy


>you said it yourself
No I didn't

As for what you had to say about the ayat, I didn't follow that at all.

>religious language isn't rigorous enough
LOL
you don't know anything about "religious language", or Arabic.

>you really do have to make a leap of faith
Says the one who is wholly ignorant? You really don't have to.

>this means it is actually you
No. Of course you would have a faulty conclusion when your entire premise is entirely without the bounds of reality. again, presumptions on your behalf as I stated.

>you've been influenced by
Just no

Try again when you have knowledge on the subject.

_________________
Imam al-Shafi’i ( رحمه الله ) wrote:
It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs.

Skype: RivalSpade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Cheat Engine Forum Index -> Random spam All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

CE Wiki   IRC (#CEF)   Twitter
Third party websites