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This tool wastes a lot of people's time
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Honest Game Player
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: This tool wastes a lot of people's time Reply with quote

I play a lot of online competitive games. I am finding that lots of my random opponents are using cheatengine. I understand that this was not the original intent of this tool.

I wonder how many support staff, developers and gamers have to spend a large amount of their time dealing with the consequences of this tool?

Please, in the interest of the gaming community, stop using, developing and/or publicising this destructive tool.
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DaSpamer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In interest of gamers who just want a small buff, or a bigger buff to make their game easier, don't stop using this.

Don't like the tool? That's your problem, DEAL with it.
Don't like hackers in MP games (we don't either), create your own game.


And cheat engine was created for cheating games (you can understand that from it's name).

Also the only 'waste' I've seen here, is reading your thread.

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Geri
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheat Engine is not the only tool that can scan the memory etc. Tools like this have existed even in the DOS era. It's not Cheat Engine's fault that there are many cheaters in MP games. It's because of incompetent game developers or publishers who don't give a shit about cheaters as long as money is flowing in.

I have seen some very well protected MP games, but honestly most of them are crap. And I mean really crap, to the point where you can run around with being invincible and stuff like that. Do yourself a favor and avoid these crap games. Don't waste your money and time on it.

The bottom line is, it's not the tool that is destructive. It's the developers who don't care about you and their other players.

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Lorrenzo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheating has been around for a long ass time, as described by Geri.

Second, we're not going to stop developing because one person wants it to stop.

Third, in my opinion, a bunch of people use this tool to learn, not just to cheat.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: This tool wastes a lot of people's time Reply with quote

Honest Game Player wrote:
I play a lot of online competitive games. I am finding that lots of my random opponents are using cheatengine. I understand that this was not the original intent of this tool.

I wonder how many support staff, developers and gamers have to spend a large amount of their time dealing with the consequences of this tool?

Please, in the interest of the gaming community, stop using, developing and/or publicising this destructive tool.


Nope.

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SF
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how mostly mods are commenting, haha.
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Geri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SF wrote:
I like how mostly mods are commenting, haha.


Probably because we are more active on the forum and he has posted only as a guest. I doubt that many people visit this area of the forum. In the General Discussion or in the Cheat Engine thread, more people would see it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

In reply to several responses:

> Don't like the tool? That's your problem, DEAL with it.

That's what I'm trying to do, deal with it.

> Don't like hackers in MP games (we don't either), create your own game.

I don't have the ability, desire or energy to create a multiplayer online game.
Besides, I like the ones that I play.

> Cheat Engine is not the only tool that can scan the memory etc. Tools like this have existed even in the DOS era. It's not Cheat Engine's fault that there are many cheaters in MP games. It's because of incompetent game developers or publishers who don't give a shit about cheaters as long as money is flowing in.

CE seems to be a dominant tool that cheaters are using now for games that I play.
Most of the CE users probably have very little understanding of how it works - if they were that smart they would be able to learn how to play games better.
Because of tools like CE, game developers need to either spend their time (and therefore gamers' money) making their games hack proof, or skip it in order to make the games better. Time is money, and AFAIK most development companies choose to write better games.

> Second, we're not going to stop developing because one person wants it to stop.

I'm sure there must be thousands of people who don't like being beaten by cheats. Every time someone unfairly wins a competitive game with Cheat Engine, someone else is losing. Some of those people report the cheater to the game's support team. Sometimes the cheater loses their account. These things happen because the victim WANTS IT TO STOP. It's not just one person.

> > I like how mostly mods are commenting, haha.

> Probably because we are more active on the forum and he has posted only as a guest. I doubt that many people visit this area of the forum. In the General Discussion or in the Cheat Engine thread, more people would see it.

Good idea, thanks. Smile

I hope I have prompted you to think about the ethics of what you do. If you think cheating is ok, how about lying? bullying? stealing? violence? slavery? When is it OK to take advantage of another person? I'd argue for "Never".
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Geri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Multiplayer cheats on the site are forbidden so the forum itself is not supporting it. As for the tool, CE is the dominant program because it is the best, but I have used many other programs too, especially before I started using CE. For basic value scanning, you can use many other programs too. If cheaters can't use CE, they will use the second most popular program, or the third and so on. There are many choices. This way, you can't stop multiplayer cheating.

There will be always such tools and there will be always some people who will use them. The change must come from the game developers to make better protections. Like it or not, they have to make anti-cheat and they have to spend money on it. This is not optional for a good MP game. If there is no protection, there will be cheaters in the game. It's inevitable.

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DaSpamer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
I hope I have prompted you to think about the ethics of what you do. If you think cheating is ok, how about lying? bullying? stealing? violence? slavery? When is it OK to take advantage of another person? I'd argue for "Never".

So you're comparing between something legal (Cheating is not illegal), and something illegal.
Seems legit man.


Have you ever hear this?
"If you can't beat someone, join him!".

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> Multiplayer cheats on the site are forbidden so the forum itself is not supporting it.

However there are MANY "how to" videos on youtube showing the masses exactly how to use CE to hack some multiplayer games. My complaint is about the tool, not this forum.

> As for the tool, CE is the dominant program because it is the best, but I have used many other programs too, especially before I started using CE. For basic value scanning, you can use many other programs too. If cheaters can't use CE, they will use the second most popular program, or the third and so on. There are many choices. This way, you can't stop multiplayer cheating.

I'm not expecting to stop it, just to reduce it. Just because there are many tools that can do this does not make it right.

> There will be always such tools and there will be always some people who will use them.

That's arguable. Forever is a long time.

> The change must come from the game developers to make better protections. Like it or not, they have to make anti-cheat and they have to spend money on it. This is not optional for a good MP game. If there is no protection, there will be cheaters in the game. It's inevitable.

Unfortunately, I think you are probably right, at least at present.


>> I hope I have prompted you to think about the ethics of what you do. If you think cheating is ok, how about lying? bullying? stealing? violence? slavery? When is it OK to take advantage of another person? I'd argue for "Never".

> So you're comparing between something legal (Cheating is not illegal), and something illegal.

Whether it is legal or not is not the issue, it is whether it is ethical or not. There is a big difference. Understanding this difference could help you to become a helpful, useful member of society.
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Geri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a properly made MP game, these tools are not even working. If you see someone with infinite ammo and other cheats, you can blame it on the developers. Any decent game will store the most important values on the server and not on the client.

These kind of cheats should not be possible at all. But it happens, because the developers are often very lazy. When you see it that some 10 year-old kid is posting a YouTube video on how to hack a multiplayer game, it's not because Cheat Engine is so awesome, it's because the game was coded by a bunch of morons. Really these sort of "scan for the value and change it to x" methods were made for unprotected single player games and if it is working in a multiplayer game, that game sucks. Simple as that. Developers need to make better games that can't be hacked by every kid in 2 minutes.

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unknown_k
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider to quit playing our-users-are-cheat-but-who-cares online games. Actually, that's the one and only problem here. And try report it to GM. Not here. I doubt their ability to maintain though.

Or you can learn CE and f**k cheat them all.
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Lorrenzo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheating in a video game is being compared to
Quote:
lying? bullying? stealing? violence? slavery? When is it OK to take advantage of another person?"


I seriously laughed out loud at this.
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Gniarf
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imo cheat engine is like a baseball bat: it's tool meant for some people to have fun playing baseball/cheating in SINGLE player games. But much like bats can be used by streetgangs to threaten/injure/murder people, cheat engine can be used to gain an unfair advantage over another human in some multiplayer games (but it's true that a MP game in which CE works contains a design flaw, regardless of any anti-cheat system). And yet as you can notice, bats aren't banned.
My point is: blame the people that misuse the tool, not the tool itself.

Let me add one more go at it: CE is not meant or developed to cheat in online games, but yes, it can do it. If it were, it would probably include a packet sniffer and injector (a tool commonly used by online cheaters). So, meh, you're just a victim of some idiot(s) that doesn't share your sense of ethics and use bats to bash people, coupled with game that contains (a?) design flaw(s?).


Aside that I think you have more chances to persuade a single player to stop cheating in your game in a one-on-one situation, than chances to persuade a whole community in a one-on-175 000+ situation. I'm speaking about the number of registered forum users who presumably all use CE, not the amount of people posting in your topic, or the actual amount of people using CE. In other words if the game's internal police (aka GM) doesn't do its job, you have more chances to achieve your goal by going to your game's forums and making a "Stop cheating" topic or chatting ingame with the offenders -though as you can guess- your odds for success are *pretty* slim.


One question though: do you realize that your OP is like barging into a pub and shouting "Stop drinking alcohol, I can't stand the drunkards!" ?


Quote:
I hope I have prompted you to think about the ethics of what you do. If you think cheating is ok, how about lying? bullying? stealing? violence? slavery? When is it OK to take advantage of another person? I'd argue for "Never".
I think it's fine to cheat against, lie to, bully, steal from, exert violence on, enslave, and take advantage over the AI from the various SP games I play. Most of those are actually done on a common basis, even without CE. Remember that we're talking about what we're doing IN GAMES, cheating or doing any of the above in real life is a different issue.

BTW for sophistry's sake and outside the scope of gaming, don't forget to exclude "Times of war", some law enforcement situations, and self defense times (for violence) from your "Never", though it's off topic.

EDIT: 2nd approach -----------------------
A group of people is using cheat engine.
A subset of that group, a minority imo, is misusing it in a way that annoys you.
->That is enough for you to request the tool's annihilation.
An even smaller subset imo is misusing CE to do what you'd probably call "good" stuff; I'm speaking about bugfixes for games that are no longer patched, and tools to ban unsavory players in online games (example 1 example 2). You may want to argue that said unsaviory players exist thanks to CE which is partly true, but in the case of the second example, they weren't using any tool.
->If I understand your reasoning correctly, that should be enough to request the tool's survival and/or promotion.

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