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Which programming language to learn ?
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Dacnomania
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject: Which programming language to learn ? Reply with quote

Which programming language do you recommend I learn ?
I want to get experience and in the future make a career out of programming, I know learning a language is a challenge, But I want to learn one (well as many as I can) fluently, For programming software as well as making games, I have a big desire for making an online game such as, for example Sherwood dungeon. Alright that game really sucks, I mean the guy has been working on it for how long, and it still doesn't have any purpose, but it has a pretty big active online players count.

If someone can recommend me a programming language that would help me gain knowledge of creating online games, programs and so forth.

I've considered C, then learning Java, and flash but I really don't know.
I've learned vb, so I know how functions and all works, and what they are.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the type of career you plan to make out of programming.

Gaming - Firstly, I wouldn't bother recommending you do anything game related with programming unless you plan to take a college course and get a degree sometime in your future. You wont get hired by any major company unless you have a degree or have made an indie project that has gotten you known in the industry. Don't learn a language expecting to be the next killer game creator.

Database work - .NET is the leader in the industry for database backend and connectivity. Almost any company you attempt to apply for will expect you to know a .NET language (VB.NET or C#) along with possibly knowing ASP.NET and its sub-libraries (WebForms, MVC, etc.)

Gaming related, you will use whatever language the company is working with. College courses, in most cases, will start you off with Java, then further develop into C. To which jumping into C++ on your own time or in another course would be recommended. (Overall if you learn C++ you'll learn C at the same time, given that you read into C a bit and understand its rulesets and such compared to C++.)

Simply because you can hit . and get an intellisense drop down to help you does not mean you know a languages in and outs either. You might know specific parts of the language for the portions of work you did with it but I can guarantee you that you don't know everything about VB.NET regardless of how terrible of a language it is.

My personal opinion overall:
- C/C++ for gaming related.
- .NET (C#) for database/server related.

Avoid Java like the plague, ditch VB/VB.NET cause it sucks and just learn C#

To each their own on their opinions though, this is a fairly bias topic.

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Dacnomania
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't plan on being hired by a major company my father's friend is a programmer, he got me learning visual basic, I'm still busy with the pdf he sent me, when I'm done he'll help me further. I will most probably work for him.

I plan on creating a mmo in the far future, as a hobby of course I'll still add a premium feature to it for the server costs.

"will start you off with Java, then further develop into C"
Some guy said he had to learn C before he could do Java, in his school.

Well I planned on learning c# and c++, which of the two `C#/C' should I begin with first, Well I guess if I just read a bunch of tutorials covering most of C then I could start with c++. But I'll probably have to start with c# first ?

When I stated I know how functions work And so, I meant that I know how programming works and such, It's not like I'm totally new to it, which I think will help me.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C and C# are two different languages.

C is unmanaged and lower level.
C# is managed and is a high level language.

Each have their purposes, their ups and downs, etc. C will give you much more control over whatever you code where as C# will have a higher level of dependency on other things, as well as not being able to [easily] do what lower level languages can do. C# is more for RAD purposes and gives users a faster development environment for front end models. (Granted C# has been proven to be a fairly powerful language for backend work as well.)

In game terms, drop VB now if you plan to make games or anything game related (non-hacking related that is).

If you plan to learn C, just learn C++ You will learn C in the process and if you care enough to know more in depth C specifics you can go back and look into its rule sets and differences to C++.

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Dacnomania
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know they're two different languages.

I've made trainers using VB, It's not a hard language, so I'd rather not drop it, but I will focus more on c++.
Besides for that I've been doing tutorials on Lua, since last night, still about 37 more of them to do. Razz
When I'm done with that I'll go with c++.
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Freiza
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The easiest option for you is to learn python and use pygame.
even there is a game engine known as panda3d to help you out..
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Josheh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask why you dislike Java so much? I don't know that much about the inner-workings and what-not, but I know it requires the JRE as .NET requires the .NET Framework. I really love its portability and companies such as Google have put it to great use; Android Phones/YouTube/etc.

????

Is it a really bad language to learn?
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M.CORP
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Josheh wrote:
Can I ask why you dislike Java so much? I don't know that much about the inner-workings and what-not, but I know it requires the JRE as .NET requires the .NET Framework. I really love its portability and companies such as Google have put it to great use; Android Phones/YouTube/etc.

????

Is it a really bad language to learn?

No it isn't. Its one of the best languages ever invented!!! Even minecraft is made on it! Very Happy
The main advantage of it is primarily portability.
The other ones are write less code, less compile time and run on optimum resources.
However, the disadvantage is that it runs slowly than C++ and C native codes since it runs on a virtual machine that translates code from class to binary.

You can choose any language you can but the most common language for game programming is C++, as its the standard programming language for the gaming industry. So just choose any as long as you know what you're doing.

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Josheh
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+=Marvin=+ wrote:
Josheh wrote:
Can I ask why you dislike Java so much? I don't know that much about the inner-workings and what-not, but I know it requires the JRE as .NET requires the .NET Framework. I really love its portability and companies such as Google have put it to great use; Android Phones/YouTube/etc.

????

Is it a really bad language to learn?

No it isn't. Its one of the best languages ever invented!!! Even minecraft is made on it! Very Happy
The main advantage of it is primarily portability.
The other ones are write less code, less compile time and run on optimum resources.
However, the disadvantage is that it runs slowly than C++ and C native codes since it runs on a virtual machine that translates code from class to binary.

You can choose any language you can but the most common language for game programming is C++, as its the standard programming language for the gaming industry. So just choose any as long as you know what you're doing.


Thanks for the reply but I'd like to here from someone in the programming field with vast knowledge (no offense). Also Java is fast: http://keithlea.com/javabench/ -- I think they're both fast enough in a speed-sense unless your program relies on speed, to not be broadly noticeable. Java has improved a lot since then too. Thanks again for the reply and this isn't meant to be a rude one from me.

As for my opinion, I think Java is pretty impressive. I love the syntax, conventions, and so forth. Plus if I need to write native code, I can use Java to tell me which OS and architecture, then use JNA/JNI in combination with C/C++ -- which I'm inexperienced at Embarassed. Anyway, I'm just wondering why Wiccaan doesn't seem to like Java.
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atom0s
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just personal preference. Along with the school systems today. Java is the focused language in almost all colleges (unless specific to a certain field such as .NET Microsoft certification courses) which in my opinion is horrible. Most of the time, you will never use anything you learned in college in the real world.

However, the jist of colleges teaching Java is more of an entry level thing to get people into programming and understanding code flow, syntax, and such.

Just annoying to see college professors get anal about Java because they think its the only language in the world because they grew up using it so they are entirely close-minded to accept that other languages can do things better. I've had teachers tell friends that are in CS courses that ASM is a high level language because they are that stubborn. Basically everything I've done and discussed dealing with Java always turns into a why Java sucks discussion lol.

It's not the craft of the devil or anything, and yes Java is highly portable. But it is also bloated due to running in a VM to be portable rather then being natively designed specifically for each platform. There are goods and bads to that design approach as well as goods and bads to taking the other approach instead such as how C/C++ is on various platforms.

Simply put, to each their own when it comes to programming. Pick what suits you and what you are comfortable with.

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mibiz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you've mentioned that the programming language is also used for game development. Consider the game that you're making will be using: 3D (most likely the case) via DirectX/OpenGL/OpenCL?, sound quality (EAX, THX, etc..), client specific (windows only? or *nix too?) etc... Read more about each technology that your intended game will/could be using and learn about it's interface then consider the fact about platform (Mac OS X, *nix, Windows, consoles, etc...) which your game would be running.

Keep this in mind, C/C++ is more for OS and its applications (including gaming and JRE) development. C#/Java is more of web development, specifically for e-commerce and/or web presence, which also now requires JavaScript. As for the recommendation of ditching VB is correct. If you look at jobs available, VB is very rare... Most job openings are for C/C++, Java, C#, ASP.NET (primarily C#) - not necessarily in that order. Whether you intend to work for a corporation or not, you still don't want to waste time on a language that's not in demand very much, IMHO. (Note: Those mentioned language uses are found in job searches. I'm sure there many innovative ways to use any programming language.)

Overall, look at your intended audience, game mechanics (client/server, UI, platform availability, etc...). Then make an informed decision. With all the recommendations, no one can really understand your situation and the objective of your intended game. Example, look at the blocky 3D of Minecraft yet the game is popular, though I don't play it myself. Why did they choose Java? "13,307,200 people have registered and 3,450,311 people bought the game" can't go wrong there Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: This post has 2 review(s) Reply with quote

mibiz wrote:
Keep this in mind, C/C++ is more for OS and its applications (including gaming and JRE) development. C#/Java is more of web development, specifically for e-commerce and/or web presence, which also now requires JavaScript. As for the recommendation of ditching VB is correct. If you look at jobs available, VB is very rare... Most job openings are for C/C++, Java, C#, ASP.NET (primarily C#) - not necessarily in that order. Whether you intend to work for a corporation or not, you still don't want to waste time on a language that's not in demand very much, IMHO. (Note: Those mentioned language uses are found in job searches. I'm sure there many innovative ways to use any programming language.)


Can't say I agree with almost any of this. No offense but the way you worded this paragraph basically implies; if it can be used for web development its made for web development.

C# is not specific to web development or even 'more of' towards web development. ASP.NET is nothing more then a framework built around the .NET framework to basically plug into C# for web development. The same goes for Java, applets are not the main focus of Java at all. They are just something that can be created with Java.

Job wise, no C# is not specific to web development. I have several friends in the IT field that use C# daily; almost never does it involve anything that touches the web. If the job is specific to ASP.NET, then yes, it will involve C# but it is not the main focus almost ever. Myself included, I use C#, C, C++ almost every day and almost never involve the web unless I am coding a web service specifically.


Quote:
Why did they choose Java? "13,307,200 people have registered and 3,450,311 people bought the game" can't go wrong there Smile


You do realize the game came before the players right? They didn't choose Java because of 13 million people. This doesn't justify that Java is any better or worse then another language.

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mibiz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiccaan wrote:
mibiz wrote:
Keep this in mind, C/C++ is more for OS and its applications (including gaming and JRE) development. C#/Java is more of web development, specifically for e-commerce and/or web presence, which also now requires JavaScript. As for the recommendation of ditching VB is correct. If you look at jobs available, VB is very rare... Most job openings are for C/C++, Java, C#, ASP.NET (primarily C#) - not necessarily in that order. Whether you intend to work for a corporation or not, you still don't want to waste time on a language that's not in demand very much, IMHO. (Note: Those mentioned language uses are found in job searches. I'm sure there many innovative ways to use any programming language.)


Can't say I agree with almost any of this. No offense but the way you worded this paragraph basically implies; if it can be used for web development its made for web development.

C# is not specific to web development or even 'more of' towards web development. ASP.NET is nothing more then a framework built around the .NET framework to basically plug into C# for web development. The same goes for Java, applets are not the main focus of Java at all. They are just something that can be created with Java.

Job wise, no C# is not specific to web development. I have several friends in the IT field that use C# daily; almost never does it involve anything that touches the web. If the job is specific to ASP.NET, then yes, it will involve C# but it is not the main focus almost ever. Myself included, I use C#, C, C++ almost every day and almost never involve the web unless I am coding a web service specifically.

I meant 'job wise' is what you'll see in job searches. Yes, I know C# has other uses too like Winform, which I've used to create a bot accessing my own DB for a MMORPG game. I merely state that's what I've been seeing in the job searches in past couple of years. As stated in my Note: ... I'm sure there many innovative ways to use any programming language. Look at JavaScript. Couple years ago, no one thought it could be used in this way, AJAX. Now with HTML5, you can do multi-threaded.
Quote:

Quote:
Why did they choose Java? "13,307,200 people have registered and 3,450,311 people bought the game" can't go wrong there Smile


You do realize the game came before the players right? They didn't choose Java because of 13 million people. This doesn't justify that Java is any better or worse then another language.

I merely pointed out that the developer had the game idea in mind. He wanted to reach certain audience, including smart phones. He chose Java because 1) it could achieve what he wants, 2) because he already knew Java, 3) or both. It became popular simply because of the quality game-play. We all know that to gamers and/or consumers, they don't really care what language the game is written in as long as the game can entice them enough to keep them coming back or recommend it to others. If it's really good to the point where the player is too focused in the game play itself, the player doesn't really pay a lot of attention to the quality of the graphics, like blocky 3D and plain scenery like in Minecraft. Also, the game was made in that way so it's playable on smart phones due to 3D less video card. Which brings back to my 1st recommendation to OP, look at the intended audience, look at the technologies the game would use for the impression you want the game to have on the players, then choose the language to learn. Is there any sense to learn Java when he has no intention to have the game played on Droids or via web browsers while his game may use the latest 3D tech to generate life like toons and scenery? Sure, he could probably make Java work in that way but how much is easier to use C/C++? Those numbers I quoted because the Minecraft developer made the right choice, IHMO, based upon the game he has in mind.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been trying to code a game in c++ with sfml as my graphics lib , and im having to code alot of the underlying systems from scratch(since i cant find a game lib i like). so if you want to learn something about coding and get results on your game i recommend c# and XNA, with the quick progression xna projects have you wont lose interest like i have so many times.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd choose c++ overall.
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