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| Which assembler do you prefer? |
| Nasm |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Fasm |
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28% |
[ 4 ] |
| Masm |
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71% |
[ 10 ] |
| Tasm |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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Message |
Varreon
Advanced Cheater
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 80
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Which Assembler? |
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Welcome everyone, I'm back from a 1yr+ inactivity. Anyway, I've decided to get back into assembly programming. Since I'm going to have to relearn the language anyway, I don't think it will be an issue to switch assemblers. In the past, I coded with tasm. Now, I'm stuck between Fasm and Nasm. What do you have experience with, and what do you recommend?
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Flyte
Peanuts!!!!
 Reputation: 6
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1887
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| FASM; stay the hell away from NASM.
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Overload
Master Cheater
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| i would go with MASM. But FASM isn't bad either (from whta i know.)
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tombana
Master Cheater
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 456
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| I use masm. I haven't tried others yet, but I googled fasm a minute ago and it doesn't seem so different.
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Flyte
Peanuts!!!!
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1887
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Also, you should keep in mind that most people who voted MASM are the ones who are too stupid to program in pure ASM and instead are dependant on the macros.
As I have said before, FASM is the way to go as you have far more control.
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tombana
Master Cheater
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 456
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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That's probably true, but for me, masm was the first asm compiler I heard of so I downloaded that one. I never use macro's though.
Can you give some examples of things you have far more control with in FASM compared to masm?
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Stylo
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 1073
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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i'm using tasm but it's because of school . . i haven't tried anyone of the others
can any1 direct me to a FASM download?
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DoomsDay
Grandmaster Cheater
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 768
Location: %HomePath%
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tombana wrote: | That's probably true, but for me, masm was the first asm compiler I heard of so I downloaded that one. I never use macro's though.
Can you give some examples of things you have far more control with in FASM compared to masm? |
It allows you more control regarding the PE header, for example.
| 1qaz wrote: | i'm using tasm but it's because of school . . i haven't tried anyone of the others
can any1 direct me to a FASM download? |
oh the HORROR
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Varreon
Advanced Cheater
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Do you recommend a certain tutorial for fasm? The "Grand Library of Tutorials" has most tutorials for a86 and tasm, whose syntax styles are clearly different from fasm. Google doesn't return much, except several references to a site which no longer exists.
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Flyte
Peanuts!!!!
Reputation: 6
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1887
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Varreon wrote: | | Do you recommend a certain tutorial for fasm? The "Grand Library of Tutorials" has most tutorials for a86 and tasm, whose syntax styles are clearly different from fasm. Google doesn't return much, except several references to a site which no longer exists. |
Teach yourself off of the examples they have included, or you can go on the FASM forum to look for tutorials.
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STN
I post too much
 Reputation: 43
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 2676
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Flyte wrote: | | Also, you should keep in mind that most people who voted MASM are the ones who are too stupid to program in pure ASM and instead are dependant on the macros. |
I would say you are the one who is stupid. Go learn something before opening your mouth. I guess from your above reply, you don't know FASM also has support for macro's, and you can use Invoke statements as well.In fact fasm is a lot more dependent on macros than masm.And according to you people using language with macros are stupid, so won't that make you stupid as well because fasm supports macros  .
Regarding pure ASM, it all depends on the coder, you can code pure ASM in MASM as well.. MASM doesn't force you to use invokes/macro's and you can code a program that is all in pure ASM.
| Flyte wrote: |
As I have said before, FASM is the way to go as you have far more control. |
wow never read a more stupid comment than the above. MASM and FASM both are compilers for asm and the only slight difference between them is of syntax so how can FASM have more control. Its like saying you have more control of the system with Dev-CPP than with MS-VC++ because it is freeware hahaaa  ...well $hithead they both are compilers for c++ so the control depends on language not compiler.
Peace
PS: i voted for masm, ohh and i rarely use macro's  . The reason for me using masm is because its a bit high-level as well as low-level, so it makes coding programs really easy.
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tombana
Master Cheater
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 456
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| DoomsDay wrote: | | It allows you more control regarding the PE header, for example. |
Well ok, but for most programs this isn't needed. I wanted to do it once, and I modified it myself after compiling it with a hex editor.
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Flyte
Peanuts!!!!
Reputation: 6
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1887
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| STN wrote: | | I would say you are the one who is stupid. Go learn something before opening your mouth. I guess from your above reply, you don't know FASM also has support for macro's, and you can use Invoke statements as well.In fact fasm is a lot more dependent on macros than masm.And according to you people using language with macros are stupid, so won't that make you stupid as well because fasm supports macros . |
First of all, yes FASM has macros, but they are a lot less prevalent. Anyways, like you said, you aren't forced to use those macros. Also, my previous statement was based off of the fact that most shitheads will flock to MASM because they see everyone else using it, hence why the vast majority of MASM users are dependent on the macros.
| STN wrote: | | Regarding pure ASM, it all depends on the coder, you can code pure ASM in MASM as well.. MASM doesn't force you to use invokes/macro's and you can code a program that is all in pure ASM. |
I agree, but as I stated before most of the people who have never really programmed in assembly will flock to MASM, and hence the vast majority are dependent on the macros for program control.
| STN wrote: | | wow never read a more stupid comment than the above. MASM and FASM both are compilers for asm and the only slight difference between them is of syntax so how can FASM have more control. Its like saying you have more control of the system with Dev-CPP than with MS-VC++ because it is freeware hahaaa ...well $hithead they both are compilers for c++ so the control depends on language not compiler. |
It's quite obvious you have never heard of assembler/compiler options, as the language itself is only responsible for the code itself, not the entire PE image. Take your fucking blatant ignorance elsewhere.
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oib111
I post too much
 Reputation: 0
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2947
Location: you wanna know why?
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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x0r as right as you are. Both Wiccaan and STN are cool dudes. STN may have been ignorant, but whatever, you proved he was wrong. And I doubt Wiccaan is going to have bias regarding this topic. And just because they are Admins on the same site doesn't mean anything...at all. They can have different opinions, and different knowledge.
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STN
I post too much
Reputation: 43
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 2676
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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ok first of all what has me being associated with extalia to do with this topic ?. I don't remember the author asking for members team
| x0r wrote: |
Flyte explicitly stated that people who use MASM32 are too "dependant on the macros" and this statement is entirely true, almost all MASM32 projects you will find are riddled with macro usage so either you're blind or you aren't seasoned at all when it comes to MASM32.
Furthermore your accusation that FASM is more dependent on macros is pathetic and faceless, the whole FASM source is coded in pure assembly, and can compile itself. I don't even know why you're saying something like that, Flyte never said that macros were too stupid but he stated that the excessive use of macros trivializes the use of using ASM at all.. |
Man, your thoughts about masm and fasm are so wrong, it makes me think you've never used fasm. What i posted in my post was all based on research, i googled for every claim i made and then posted.
The reason why i said fasm is more dependent on macros is because fasm needs macros for high-level capabilities while masm don't need macros.
Almost every fasm project includes win32ax which contains what ? macros to emulate High Level MASM syntax. If you see the hello world example included with fasm package, what does it contain ?
| Quote: | ; example of simplified Win32 programming using complex macro features
include 'win32ax.inc'
.code
start:
invoke MessageBox,HWND_DESKTOP,"Hi! I'm the example program!","Win32 Assembly",MB_OK
invoke ExitProcess,0
.end start |
while masm examples rarely have macro's. Invoke is used so much in fasm projects while you know what, it is a macro. Proofs for what i said
http://www.winasm.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2100
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AsmTools/WhichAsm.html
http://www.winasm.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2100
So in light of this, first
people using masm aren't dependent on macro's because masm provides the high-level functionalities without need of macros. But if an author is using macro's, it could be for the convenience of him. But masm doesn't force you to use macro, it provides most high-level features built-in.
Second, i proved my accusation that fasm is dependent on macro right because even for a simple hello world program, you saw the example used macro while such an example in masm would've been coded without macro's. The links i posted clearly prove fasm needs macro's for most basic functionalities.
| x0r wrote: |
| STN wrote: | | Regarding pure ASM, it all depends on the coder, you can code pure ASM in MASM as well.. MASM doesn't force you to use invokes/macro's and you can code a program that is all in pure ASM. |
Flyte never said you couldn't, thanks for proving you missed his entire point.. |
You seem to love Flyte so much, don't you ?. Read his post
| Quote: | | people who voted MASM are the ones who are too stupid to program in pure ASM |
that post makes it clear that he thinks you can't code pure asm with MASM. But i don't know why you are defending him so much tho
| x0r wrote: |
| STN wrote: | | wow never read a more stupid comment than the above. MASM and FASM both are compilers for asm and the only slight difference between them is of syntax so how can FASM have more control. Its like saying you have more control of the system with Dev-CPP than with MS-VC++ because it is freeware hahaaa ...well $hithead they both are compilers for c++ so the control depends on language not compiler. |
Wow, never read such a stupid statement from the administrator of a game-hacking group. MASM32 is very restrictive, it only supports the PE format (due to OBJ building methodology) and this means that it will only work on Windows, FASM works on both Windows and Linux. Furthermore, FASM32 allows you to create the executable header and all the different descriptors. The really funny thing is you're so stupid that you only compared IDEs, not the actual compiler backends they use. Also, mingw (DevC++) and Microsoft C++ Compiler compile in very different ways |
Cross-Platform support was not topic of our debate mate, he said fasm provides more control and the reason he provided was PE header. I wont consider this more control. Example of lack of control is like between C and VB. You have more control with c because its low-level, pointer manipulation is easy,you can communicate with system so easily, while VB hmmm i hope i wont need to explain how it lacks control . I don't think fasm has so much difference with masm so how can it have more control, you might be able to do one thing easy with fasm but that wont come under more control heh.
The example i provided in last post wasn't so great but i hope i have made myself clear now.
| x0r wrote: |
Also, I'm suspecting that Wiccaan will show some blatant bias here, either by deleting all of our posts or just closing the thread, without warning STN who flamed Flyte with no reason and also attempted to misinform users with his unfounded claims about MASM32 and FASM. Oh and did I mention that Wiccaan and STN are both administrators of the same site? No matter, if Wiccaan deletes these posts I'll be sure to report to Dark_Byte for breach of moderator protocol :] |
man, i can't believe your mentality is such low. It probably is because you have been warned/or your posts deleted by Wiccaan or other mod in past. I wasn't expecting this paragraph from you seriously.
Wiccaan is an independent individual and just because we both are in same team wont mean he will be biased, he has no reason to. If this was the case, i would have been a mod here by now because i have several team-mates here who i am sure with just a small pm could make me mod.
I don't know the relation between you and Flyte seriously, but don't you think his post is inviting a flame war, i will quote it again so you can read it(your post signals you haven't read it yet)
| Quote: | | Also, you should keep in mind that most people who voted MASM are the ones who are too stupid to program in pure ASM and instead are dependant on the macros. |
His post is clearly disrespecting/offending masm supporters and people who voted for it, so how did i flamed Flyte with no reason ?.
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