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I met a legit neo-nazi at a party.
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sbryzl
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil isn't a religious term. It's the state of being on the wrong end of the moral scale. Religion doesn't have a patent on morality.

You have a good point about recognizing the causes before they lead to the atrocity but that either usually doesn't happen or doesn't happen well enough and so it is necessary to also not ignore those situations that have escaped the precursor era.

To add to that the whole reason we recognize the holocaust (and all genocide) as evil is because we are informing those who would otherwise be "normal" people just following the cause of their particular group that these types of actions are definitely wrong.
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Brolock
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immoral would be the word you want, not evil. evil is a religious term. you either follow a moral system which people recognize, or you are immoral and do immoral things, and depending on your society these morals can change

this is another reason why its bad to use the word evil, because things that religion and people deem evil are seen as set in stone, christian can kill another religion and see it as not evil nor wrong in any way and justify it. if it were to be deemed moral instead in their system, we could question the system of morality.

if you want to see evil as a non-religious term that's fine, but most people associate evil with religion, and most of their morals with religion as well. using immoral instead of evil would be better. no one questions if something is evil, they do question moral and immoral, that's because those questions are more rooted in philosophy while good and evil is what is most commonly acceptable at the time.
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sbryzl
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:
immoral would be the word you want, not evil. evil is a religious term. you either follow a moral system which people recognize, or you are immoral and do immoral things, and depending on your society these morals can change
Immoral is a synonym for evil. They are somewhat interchangeable even if their meanings aren't precisely the same.
Brolock wrote:

this is another reason why its bad to use the word evil, because things that religion and people deem evil are seen as set in stone, christian can kill another religion and see it as not evil nor wrong in any way and justify it. if it were to be deemed moral instead in their system, we could question the system of morality.

You could do the same with the term immoral. "A christian can kill another religion and see it as moral, not immoral in any way, and justify it." But now you've included the word wrong too. Do you see the words right and wrong as religious terms?

Brolock wrote:
if you want to see evil as a non-religious term that's fine, but most people associate evil with religion, and most of their morals with religion as well. using immoral instead of evil would be better. no one questions if something is evil, they do question moral and immoral, that's because those questions are more rooted in philosophy while good and evil is what is most commonly acceptable at the time.
I don't get why you think evil is religious. I could see if you were arguing the term 'satanic' because that does have a christian etymology. When you say no one questions whether something is evil do you mean no one can debate if something is evil. Because we appear to be debating whether genocide is evil right now.
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Brolock
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we arent debating if genocide is evil on the basis that evil is synonymous for immoral, we are debating if genocide is evil because of the connotations that come with using the word evil

people would think that immoral people can be fixed through teaching them better morals, but people don't think you can fix evil.

if you dont get why I think evil is religious, just read the fucking wiki page on evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil
I go with Nietzschean interpretation; "the natural functional non-good has been socially transformed into the religious concept of evil by the slave mentality of the weak and oppressed masses who resent their masters (the strong)." and theres an entire section on the holocaust and the word evil
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sbryzl
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brolock wrote:

if you dont get why I think evil is religious, just read the fucking wiki page on evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil
I go with Nietzschean interpretation; "the natural functional non-good has been socially transformed into the religious concept of evil by the slave mentality of the weak and oppressed masses who resent their masters (the strong)." and theres an entire section on the holocaust and the word evil

We shouldn't stop using a word just because some religious text has hijacked it for it's own purpose. Religion says god is good, does that mean you would not say anyone is good just because you don't want to compare them to god?
Brolock wrote:

we arent debating if genocide is evil on the basis that evil is synonymous for immoral, we are debating if genocide is evil because of the connotations that come with using the word evil

people would think that immoral people can be fixed through teaching them better morals, but people don't think you can fix evil.

I don't get this either. I believe people who are evil or immoral can find redemption. Maybe evil does have a stronger connotation but I believe mass killing of other people without justification is suitable for a label of evil. If that's not enough then what would it take to call something evil?
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Brolock
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing can be called evil because evil for a non-religious person doesn't exist. if you want to use the word evil to mean extremely immoral actions and not have it be used with any religious baggage then sure you can call it evil.

its not that religious text has hijacked it, its that most people associate evil with religion, whether thats because most people associate their morals with their religion is irrelevant. most people dont associate good with god, good things can be a good hamburger, a good house, objects etc, but evil isn't applied that way, evil is used in context of immorality in regards to religious ideals. the devil isn't just immoral, hes evil; psychopaths are evil, while people who murder under certain circumstance aren't evil, despite them being both equally immoral
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sbryzl
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure you're not ascribing your own beliefs to others? I don't know about most people sense of evil but I don't consider it a religious term so if most people do then I must be pretty unique. I don't have any religious baggage when I use the term either.

Were you very religious at one time and then break away from it?

Psychopaths I don't know about being evil. I think that would depend on the circumstances. What if you have a psychopath who just acts really goofy but doesn't hurt anyone? Would that be evil? As for a murderer, I don't know what circumstances you are talking about. If you are referring to revenge for a wrongdoing of equal value then I suppose I could see your point. That would still be immoral and I don't know that I would put an evil connotation on that.
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