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PC purported to be the next big platform...

 
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AhMunRa
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:46 pm    Post subject: PC purported to be the next big platform... Reply with quote

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/250462,opinion-how-the-pc-is-making-consoles-look-out-of-date.aspx

Interesting article that game developers are saying PC is yet again the next big platform. The main reason being that consoles are using 6 year old hardware and technology, and nobody is currently talking about releasing a new console anytime soon. This is leaving the developers looking to the PC to take advantage of the PC hardware that has cropped up. Site includes 3 videos, 1 looks more like a cut scene, but supposedly is using the new Unreal Engine. The 2nd is more showing real time rendering form a developer standpoint using Crytech2 Engine. The 3rd is in my opinion the best, showcasing the Frostbite 2 Engine from DICE on an early Alpha release of Battlefield 3, looks like EA will be getting my money again.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say PC was ever not the best/biggest platform. Consoles ship with limitations and boundaries as to how far they can be pushed. They basically come with a count-down til they are out-dated and replaced. Since PCs are easy to upgrade and can be done fairly cheap they're always more inclined to stay up with the games to date.

I stopped buying consoles after PS1 cause of this. It's cheaper to just own a PC and upgrade it to play the latest games each time the next jump in gaming technology happens. PS3 still costs more then my current system did for me to build it manually.

For $300-400, people can build a system that will play any game released to date. And then keep that system for years to come while the current consoles will be outdated within the next ~2 years. It's only a matter of time before we see the next Nintendo and Microsoft previews for their next-gen consoles.

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AhMunRa
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never thought of PC gaming in that sense. My reasoning was always a games playability. You can only run through so many levels so many times before you get bored with it, but because it was on a PC the game could be modded, add-ons added, new levels created. In my mind I could rationalize paying $50 for a game because I would be able to play it for awhile, and when it got boring, I could mod it and play it some more.
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Geri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xbox360 was outdated already when it came out. It's hardware was ridiculous compared to a higher-end PC of that time. I have checked a few games on it, saw the limitations in graphic etc and never cared about it again. Consoles are for the masses who doesn't want a PC, just plug in something and play. It has bunch of limits, it gets outdated in max a year compared to average PCs but it does its duty, simple as it can be.
It is good if you are an average guy who doesn't even know how is a keyboard working but if you are a regular PC user, console just looks a dumb box which can do nothing, compared to a PC.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geri wrote:
Xbox360 was outdated already when it came out. It's hardware was ridiculous compared to a higher-end PC of that time. I have checked a few games on it, saw the limitations in graphic etc and never cared about it again. Consoles are for the masses who doesn't want a PC, just plug in something and play. It has bunch of limits, it gets outdated in max a year compared to average PCs but it does its duty, simple as it can be.
It is good if you are an average guy who doesn't even know how is a keyboard working but if you are a regular PC user, console just looks a dumb box which can do nothing, compared to a PC.


Same with the Wii, it is literally an updated GameCube.



No idea why Nintendo thought their system would be worth upgrading when the GameCube itself didn't do amazing. Granted Wii was more pointed to family play rather then a single gamer. After owning a Wii for a short time, I highly recommend not wasting your money on it. The games for it suck.

@AhMunRa: That too, modification of the game on PC for expansions, addons, etc. are a reason I love PC games too. A simple FPS for example Counter-Strike, can be modded to play so many different ways aside from its traditional shooter style.

Another example is Warcraft. (Not WoW, the original RTS.) That spawned game play modes of its own which other game designers worked off of. (League of Ledgends for example.)

Simply put PC ftw lol. Only reason consoles are still around is because of piracy. It's harder [and more risky] to mod your console to play ripped copies of games then it is to pirate them on PC. The game industries are basically depending on consoles to keep themselves in business.

But with games going more mainstream towards online game play, PC will pick up again since owning a copy is more or less so required to play the game online then.

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Geri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

Piracy is rampant on consoles too, maybe even more than on PC because once you have modded your console, you don't need to rely on cracks etc. And if you screw up something, usually you just bring it back and some unsuspecting customer service rep will change it for a new. Smile

It is really pushed so hard to conquer other parts of the market that is not PC oriented. People who are not interested in PCs will usually not learn to use them just to play. Some of them will, but the majority will not. The consoles are made for the average not-geek teenagers and alike who are hanging out all the time, drinking, using drugs, collecting trophies of fucked girls and so on and on. They know nothing about computers at all. Consoles are for them. For us, more geek-like creatures, PC is superior of course.

Most of the console users couldn't even copy some files to a PC from a DVD or anything like that. It is just not for them. All they want is to play a bit. No reading, no clicking, no installing, no crap. Only gaming.

There were plans to make some cross-breeds like Console/DVD player/PC but thank god it seems that branch has died out. Intel was pushing that idea for some time.

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AhMunRa
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played FPS on consoles before, of course this was Turok on N64. Wasn't bad, but at the time I hadn't played on a PC either. Once I played my first FPS on PC I was hooked. Aiming is meant for a mouse not a joypad. A joypad is where you take your best girl or guy.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also played my first FPS on console (halo combat evolved). I really was puzzled at why I couldn't do anything at the same time as moving and shooting (my primary concern was jumping, which Super Mario 64 had taught me was the most important thing in a video game) and why I had such trouble aiming. I only learned why that was when I played my first FPS on PC that I realized there wasn't any special reason for those problems of mine, because those were caused by the fundamental inferiority of the gamepad, not because I was bad at the game. To this day, whenever I play MW2 at my friend's house, I still suck.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: This post has 1 review(s) Reply with quote

Geri wrote:
Xbox360 was outdated already when it came out. It's hardware was ridiculous compared to a higher-end PC of that time. I have checked a few games on it, saw the limitations in graphic etc and never cared about it again. Consoles are for the masses who doesn't want a PC, just plug in something and play. It has bunch of limits, it gets outdated in max a year compared to average PCs but it does its duty, simple as it can be.
It is good if you are an average guy who doesn't even know how is a keyboard working but if you are a regular PC user, console just looks a dumb box which can do nothing, compared to a PC.


Not really, console hardware was pretty fast at launch, moreso because you can get ridiculous with optimization which is part of their longevity. All the hardware is identical so developers can get zany with cycle counting and all kinds of insanity that has long since left PC for the most part. Consoles also have low level access to all the hardware and can do all kinds of hackery. DX10 / 11 make possible many features that previously only consoles could make use of like threading the draw calls, etc etc. Getting rid of the legacy overhead is good.

The gap is closed quickly but at launch it was probably a pretty fair fight against reasonably high end computers. Now though stuff like multi-gpu has matured along with multi-core processors so PC scaling potential is even more ridiculous. When the consoles dropped PC was probably lucky to have 2+ hardware threads available... consoles have 6+. Of course the architecture is different and so on and so forth blah blah, modern CPU's are at least 4+ and soon 6 or 12 will be the norm.

I doubt the next console would ever compete with a seriously high end PC. PC hardware is getting cheaper and more affordable and the scaling is going up and up. I'd say it's looking up for PC. A ps3 launched at $600.I ran Crysis on the highest settings and beat the entire game smoothly for that price and that was a couple years ago. Not that everyone wants to build computers, but I have seen more than reasonable prices for nice Dell's and shit a few times.


As for piracy, developers and publishers need to embrace the future here. Steam is insanely successful, ridiculously so, actually. This is the way to go. 0 day piracy is completely and utterly eliminated, there's literally no way to play the game before launch since you don't have the needed files. but, better yet, publishers need to be fucking intelligent with their prices. Look at Valve software. They just had an article saying they are more profitable per employee than Google or Apple. That's pretty ridiculous to be honest and their primary market is PC, but a absolutely massive majority. Valve believes pirates are under-served customers, put out a good enough title and cater to people and they will buy from you. If the reason is good enough they will purchase, and those that don't will be lured in with sales. Give game massive discount, HUGE influx of sales, so many in fact that they overall make more than they would have without.

More people get game, more money overall. Word of game spreads easier, more people happy, more money. It works for everyone. I've bought plenty of games for $5 on Steam I would have never otherwise. I bought 3 copies of Super Meat Boy for me and my friends because it was on sale for like $4... guess what the result of that was? The PC version was far and away the most popular and successful version. Idiot publishers can keep trying to push $60 titles but having sane price drop offs over time and good support WILL get sales, lots of them. Valve obviously knows what they are talking about. They are pulling in a comical amount of pure profit straight from PC. If you go into it with a modern mindset and treat customers well then PC is a more than capable platform. Piracy can be more or less a non-issue with the right support.

Tech changed, publishers need to follow. Has there been 'tragic' cases where indie titles or something gets eaten alive by pirates? Sure, but there's a happy ending to be found for the ones that thought to adapt. Look at the popularity of those Humble Indie Bundle packages that have appeared a few times. They let you pay what you want and let you split how you want it distributed, charity or developers. Is some idiot paying 1 cent for your game going to happen? Of course, but look at the fucking statistics on their site:

Total payments: $1,825,795.68

Developers get involved, promise source code, multi-platform versions, etc... people get to set their prices... everyone wins. Don't be the idiot that sets their title at 10 dollars over the norm or never reduces the price or has a sale, ever, it's not going to work here.


TLDR; PC is evolving, a lot, and fast. Tech wise and market wise. To be successful requires a new mindset but the potential is more than there.

Basically everyone should strive to be Valve.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for piracy, developers and publishers need to embrace the future here. Steam is insanely successful, ridiculously so, actually. This is the way to go. 0 day piracy is completely and utterly eliminated, there's literally no way to play the game before launch since you don't have the needed files. but, better yet, publishers need to be fucking intelligent with their prices. Look at Valve software. They just had an article saying they are more profitable per employee than Google or Apple. That's pretty ridiculous to be honest and their primary market is PC, but a absolutely massive majority. Valve believes pirates are under-served customers, put out a good enough title and cater to people and they will buy from you. If the reason is good enough they will purchase, and those that don't will be lured in with sales. Give game massive discount, HUGE influx of sales, so many in fact that they overall make more than they would have without.


Going to have to disagree with this part. Mainly the 0 day piracy being eliminated. Steam isn't new, neither is their release methods. You can still obtain every game on steam for free (with fucking with the steam client) and Steam itself doesn't prevent you from playing the games. You can launch any game bought through steam without steam running with some work.

That being said, games like Portal were leaked days before the actual release with the Steam API bits nulled so the game would run fully without having a Steam account or even having Steam installed.

I wouldn't say that its gone at all, its still there you just have to know where to look if you wan things early. That, or it will cost you extra to get your hands on a copy that's legit.

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Geri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The gap is closed quickly but at launch it was probably a pretty fair fight against reasonably high end computers.


Dunno, I remember that it has some very low cache like 1 MB or so and very small amount of memory. Maybe 512 MB. But I don't like consoles since they are good for one thing only so I never dived into this thing.
Still I have checked some games that were available and they were not really good (even though the game itself could have been good, it was Mech Warrior style stuff, I don't remember its name, but the graphic and the whole feeling was just horrible). 5 minutes with an Xbox 360 has convinced me that it doesn't meet my expectations.

On PC, dual-core was already on the market for some time and we were waiting for the next series which came out quickly and made the Xbox 360 hardware to look even more lame. But as I said I don't like consoles so I have no idea how are they utilizing their resources. Still, 512 MB RAM doesn't seem to be enough for anything to me when it comes to gaming. Even average PCs had 2 GB by that time.

Quote:
As for piracy, developers and publishers need to embrace the future here. Steam is insanely successful, ridiculously so, actually.


Yeah, even though it is a piece of ****, it is still successful and probably it will be on the rise for a long time. I don't like the Steam software itself but at least they finally make sensible marketing steps. People were complaining for more than a decade because of the stupid prices and finally someone decided to listen to the customers. And they have success, what a miracle. (A company which is actually offering products that are in demand? How crazy is that idea? Everyone should just produce non-sense stupidities and convince people that they need to buy it. That's how economy always worked. Or not? Oh hey, not.) You can see prices that can be payed already. Games here cost at least 60 USD and this was the trend for many many years. For that price, you can buy more useful stuff than one simple miserable game. People always said that if games would have lower prices, they would buy it. Damn, they actually does.

I still doubt that they will completely eliminate piracy as free is always cheaper (unless they will pay for us to play their games), but lower prices will usually mean much more customers. It isn't hard to imagine that if you drop your prices to 25%, you will get 4 times more customers. They will swarm in with their filthy money and make you rich. How disgusting.

Seriously as much as I hate Steam, they are still good at these things.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prices aren't Steams fault. I wouldn't blame them cause a game costs too much, they are simply forwarding the game to players with easier access and a central location. The price is still handled by the developers and publishers. (I'm sure Steam has some say in it for profit share and such but I doubt they weight much on the subject.)

Steam has come along way from when it was released, I've been using it since it first launched (literally the day of launch, my oldest Steam acct thats still active is 3 days after the launch old.) and seen the progress it has made. Granted they do ignore the community at times when it is in favor of their desires over the contributing communities, such as the new UI that launched recently. Majority didn't want it but they pushed it anyway to keep modern with the latest styles.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be looking forward to the frostbite engine 3.0 that will run battlefield 3 as announced
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiccaan wrote:
Quote:
As for piracy, developers and publishers need to embrace the future here. Steam is insanely successful, ridiculously so, actually. This is the way to go. 0 day piracy is completely and utterly eliminated, there's literally no way to play the game before launch since you don't have the needed files. but, better yet, publishers need to be fucking intelligent with their prices. Look at Valve software. They just had an article saying they are more profitable per employee than Google or Apple. That's pretty ridiculous to be honest and their primary market is PC, but a absolutely massive majority. Valve believes pirates are under-served customers, put out a good enough title and cater to people and they will buy from you. If the reason is good enough they will purchase, and those that don't will be lured in with sales. Give game massive discount, HUGE influx of sales, so many in fact that they overall make more than they would have without.


Going to have to disagree with this part. Mainly the 0 day piracy being eliminated. Steam isn't new, neither is their release methods. You can still obtain every game on steam for free (with fucking with the steam client) and Steam itself doesn't prevent you from playing the games. You can launch any game bought through steam without steam running with some work.

That being said, games like Portal were leaked days before the actual release with the Steam API bits nulled so the game would run fully without having a Steam account or even having Steam installed. I'm sure Valve would have titty fucked any other threats if they were considered major enough.

I wouldn't say that its gone at all, its still there you just have to know where to look if you wan things early. That, or it will cost you extra to get your hands on a copy that's legit.


A major steam feature is that it won't download a couple critical files at all and chunks are encrypted until a switch is flipped over at valve afaik. I'm not sure there's a way to cheat the system, control is out of your hands. Steam being stripped out I'm aware of, but I'm not so sure there's any way at all to actually get all the content for certain titles until the day of the release.

I'm leaning towards thinking that Valve is more than capable of titty fucking anything they figure is a massive threat anyway / don't give a shit at the moment since the impact is so laughably small that it's not worth wasting resources.

I imagine using a fucked Steam client is a fantastically quick way to get yourself banned. Steam as is already has a bunch of integrity checks. I'm not sure how long these accounts last but I wouldn't figure too long. You'll likely get booted instantly from anything that phones home, IE no online functionality at all in games.
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